Three Questions

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Bernhard Kutzler compares Ramana Maharshi who lived a healthy stress-free life and died of cancer at 70 with Pablo Picasso who lived an unhealthy life and died at 91.

While I dont deny the importance of physically active life and firmly believe staunch spiritualist too must have an active life / good healthy mind/body , I find this conclusion is too simplistic, perfunctory,superficial and at best pseudo science level observation.

There can be many unknown facets of both person life which also impacts such results

[movingalways]

Ewwerrin: Movingalways here on the forums gave me a very nice website once, with all the realms that go from bottom to top, even tho there is no end, it is a good symbolic map of the kind of relativity that existence is for consciousness.

I assume you are referring to the 31 planes of existence (samsara) of Theravada Buddhism which is indeed a map of the relativity of consciousness, but according to Buddhist doctrine, these symbolic realms do end when the desire for existence ends (nirvana). Your belief that "you are this energy [of being and becoming] as all things are" is an example of the thirst for existence. If you want to get off the ride of becoming, you need to stop buying tickets.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by movingalways

I assume...
... stop buying tickets.

When that desire to exist ceases, it is followed by hell or 1st and 2nd dimension. Back into elemental. Because existence cannot cease to exist. That is why it is all a duality and illusion. Some might say a cycle. But the reality is that every cycle is new and unique. So it is still nondual, even tho one goes back and forth between heaven and hell. They do so in a new way every single time. That is why every new experience of the cycle is nondual. Even tho its going to be an eternal ride of duality of positive and negative, expansion and contraction.

[kris]

Originally Posted by kris

Not sure if this body-body apparatus will hold up to the end of my journey.

I meant body-mind apparatus in the above statement in my earlier post.

[movingalways]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

That is why every new experience of the cycle is nondual. Even tho its going to be an eternal ride of duality of positive and negative, expansion and contraction.

You just bought another ticket to the monkey mind hell ride of blah, blah, blah. Ewwerrin, I's speaking the absolute truth here when I say YOU CAN'T KNOW HOW THE ABSOLUTE WORKS! For the sake of peace of mind and heart, contemplate on this truth and see what happens. Once again, just in case you missed it, YOU CAN'T KNOW HOW THE ABSOLUTE WORKS!

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by movingalways

YOU CAN'T KNOW HOW THE ABSOLUTE WORKS!

Agreed. We can spend the rest of our lives mentally trying to grasp how it all works, coming up with all sorts of ideas and theories. These are all just more thoughts.

The journey to realisation is not done with the mind. It is not the mind which attains realisation. When the mind is still there is a space, and in that space realisation may happen.

The mind is a useful tool but it is not capable of realising that which lies beyond the mind.

Peace

[Uday_Advaita]

Hello Starman
Thanks for answering the questions. There are a few takeaways for me.
1. Your point is that the Journey is endless and there is no goal post. It is quite possible that the seeker may cross the line without realizing it. However, I have come across individuals who in my understanding are enlightened. Those individuals also know and the people around them also know that the person has reached sagehood. Since I have not been able to ask them as to How do they know, my question remains unanswered - How does one know that he/she is enlightened? Anyway
2. Like Lord Buddha has said that - Enlightenment is the "End of suffering"
After enlightenment the Mind-Body Apparatus stops Suffering - Physical and Psychological (mental) too. When Nisargadatta maharaj was suffering from throat cancer, he was asked whether he was in pain? He said that the body was in pain. While he sometime cringed in pain, he continued to talk and guide his followers. My understanding is that while the questions cease, the mind will become quiet, but how the physical suffering does not affect the MBA - Is it due to detachment with the body?
3. The last question refers to the day to day life of the enlightened individual. Robert Adams says that he or she lives the life personified - as Love , Compassion and Humility - selfessly helping others, accepting the life as it is in the moment. Most of them become teachers
Namaskar

[Uday_Advaita]

Thanks Hitesh
Your two cents are priceless
Namaskar

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by movingalways

You just bought another...
... E ABSOLUTE WORKS!

Exactly because one cannot know how the absolute works... Is exactly why the cycle of torment will always reoccur. And is unavoidable in all infinite dimensions. It is the duality that consciousness is eternally bound to. And it cannot cease to exist. For non existence doesn't exist. We know enough, like that, to know that we will always be bound to duality.

Just because we cannot know the details of suffering that is going to re occur in infinite new ways evermore, doesn't mean we can't know that it will happen wether we like it or not. Infact, the one who denies suffering will lose memory of it and enter suffering. Just the same as the one who remembers it and resists entering suffering, will still also enter suffering. And I'm not talking about hell dimensions which are often triggering denial in people. Those are actual experiences of healing, believe it or not. There are things far worse than hell.

It's actually when one reaches the highest point in creation and ceases the desire to exist, that results in the greatest amount of suffering. Because there is the most freedom there, most energy momentum. And when that goes haywire, it will be the greatest power of you creating the greatest suffering of you.

It doesn't matter the details... Wether it will take you billions of years to reach the point of no return into torment. Or hundreds of years. Or 1 minute. It will always occur. The greatest denial of it is in the highest state of mind. And even tho your power to denie will always grow. Your power to cease denial will also always occur.

This isn't about how the absolute works. It's the inevitability of your freedom choosing bondage. Of your enlightenment to choose enheavyment. That is an eternally ever growing and expanding freedom that will always lead to contraction. To the point of no return and of no choice. Nothing can save one from their own greatest power and freedom.

It is already happening billions of times per second. By the grace of denial we don't suffer. Temporarily. For however long it is capable of being maintained. that denial. That much more in power will this one grow. Untill they reach the greatest choice. To choose the impossible. And thereby instantly lose all delusion and enter an irrevocable suffering. The decision to no longer exist.

It is the choice all souls come to. Otherwise the cycle would not be eternal. And then indeed we would know how the absolute works. And we would be able to avoid the cycle. But as you say, we dont know how the absolute works. We cannot cease existence if we cannot even know existence. So we are never safe from our own decisions. No matter how great your power and freedom and knowing is.

Infact, the greater your humbleness and power and freedom and knowing and wisdom... That much greater will your suffering end up becoming. And how much longer it will last. And the reason is exactly what you said. Because we CANNOT KNOW HOW THE ABSOLUTE WORKS. That is the exact reason why the cycle will never stop.

We will infact enjoy the cycle, wether we like it or not. Wether we want to or not. Even after billions of years of being betrayed by existence. We will again CHOOSE to re enter the cycle. We surrender to it every single time, because WE CANT KNOW HOW THE ABSOLUTE WORKS.

If we could know, we would continue on suffering and end all suffering once and for all. But there is no such possibility or hope. So all will IRRESISTABLY choose to re enter the cycle. The suffering is infinite. No one can resist it. It is irresistable. Unsurmountable. At no point will the absolute be revealed. Only a choice to suffer less by re entering the cycle of duality and buy a temporary relief of denial. Into yet evermore ever greater suffering evermore, again and again.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Agreed. We can spend...
... which lies beyond the mind.
Peace

There is no evil. The greatest evil is one of pure innocence. It is the greatest wisdom, knowledge, compassion and freedom. That chooses the highest service to the light and love of creation. And enter a suffering and darkness from where there is no escape or return.

If we could know the absolute, the cycle would never be allowed to continue. But there exists no possibility of knowing the absolute.

That is the exact reason why duality is so absolute for consciousness. Consciousness cannot cease to exist. If it could know the absolute, it would never allow existence to continue. But there exists no such possibility. It is not hopeless. Its impossibility is an eternal absolute law of existence.

One can only know enough to reveal the fate of duality for all consciousness. For all eternity.

I can say, I don't know what will happen. And I will enjoy life untill I don't. And nothing will be able to help me when I don't...
I can say I know what will happen and nothing will be able to help me when I no longer enjoy life either. Untill I enjoy life again.

This cycle of duality is absolute for consciousness. Because consciousness is not the absolute. It is a duality of subject and object.

So suggesting that one can improve their existence by certain modalities of consciousness, is illusion. One cannot use duality to overcome duality. Duality can only confirm its inability to know the absolute. To confirm that it has absolutely no power and no hope.