What will happen to the materialistic non-believers?

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by EdmundJohnstone

Hey,

What do you think will happen after death to the materialistic people (convinced non-believers) that were narrow-minded, skeptic and ignorant all their life and neglected and denied the existence of the spirit and the afterlife? (claiming death being the ultimate end, that there is nothing beyond death, because they did not remember before being born and that the spirit concept was invented by humans, or that NDE are brain hallucinations)

Will it be their spirit that will judge them after their physical death? Does the person get to be punished?

In Hinduism and Buddhism, it is not the belief sets of the person which matter, but his thoughts,words and actions.

Even if atheist or agnostic, if the person had abided with higher values or had a virtuous or just disposition, he is said to have a higher state of consciousness which will bring about a better birth later on. If the person is perfectly virtuous or abided in precise mindfulness, he can even attain enlightenment even if he is not a believer.

There can also be believers who were vicious due to uncontrolled cravings and aversions, even if knowing it is not the right thing to do, and who can consequently regress backwards.

There are examples of atheistic people having better spiritual experiences than so-called believers, because of their strong sense of duty and austerity in performing it when the believers had backed away from the same.

Originally Posted by EdmundJohnstone

Hey,

What do you think will happen after death to the materialistic people (convinced non-believers) that were narrow-minded, skeptic and ignorant all their life and neglected and denied the existence of the spirit and the afterlife? (claiming death being the ultimate end, that there is nothing beyond death, because they did not remember before being born and that the spirit concept was invented by humans, or that NDE are brain hallucinations)

Will it be their spirit that will judge them after their physical death? Does the person get to be punished?

Had a small gene in your DNA been 'switched' the other way you wouldn't have written that post because your brain wouldn't have been hardwired to process anything religious/Spiritual. Sometimes not having a belief system is outside of our control, is someone who is autistic not worthy of God's Love just the same as someone who goes to church every Sunday? And if you believe because you are afraid that if you don't you'll suffer hellfire and damnation?

If Life's Purpose/Karmic Obligations have any meaning in them at all and that our existence and the experiences within it has been chosen by Spirit in the first place, doesn't that not make being a materialistic non-believer as much of a valid Path as being a fundamentalist believer?

Who is really judging, what is being judged and against what criteria?

[7luminaries]

I was witness to the passing of a regular person (who had been into a replicated prefab human form several times), who was around 300 years old and had lived in a handful of (largely identical) prefab bodies into which the same consciousness was transferred, probably 5 or 6 times. Such that each body's time in service was around 50 years or so, for around as many partners. It was an extremely exploitative and corrupt system, whereby the body had to be refreshed it order to be remarketed to the wealthy strata that could buy a prefab partner of a certain age with an extremely subdued personality and a certain physical look (not an obvious one but one designed to "blend"), never to exceed a certain age range unless exemption was requested.

This human being was not considered fully human. She was, considered to be a blend of human and AI technology...specifically, fully human but with some sort of consciousness transfer based on some future technology into replicate bodies of the original. Sge had been told that she and those like her did not have an eternal soul, having been cooked up in a lab by the AI corporation who owned the rights to the product (the incarnate consciousness and any of its replicated bodies). The corporation had rights to "decommission" the product if at anytime she was not adhering to the partner contract as specified. She was not a legal person in any full sense, could be "turned off", the core consciousness destroyed, and the body incinerated -- it was in effect a murder which was deemed legal and accepted. She had believed for 300 yrs that she was not ensoulled and that nothing eternal of her would survive since she was "just" a core consciousness that could be "reinstalled" into a body on demand by the corporation.

Yet, when the core consciousness system failed, and any replacement consciousness of her would lack her memories from the current body, her wealthy partner decided to let her go. (A tacit acknowledgement BTW of her humanity [explicitly denied in all other ways] that who she had been and the memories made during that "contract term" with him were still unique and could not be replaced -- even by an exact copy alike in every way except knowing him.) Her consciousness clung to the cloud grid whilst she accepted that this was the end and no transfer of consciousness into a new body would be forthcoming. When she was finally ready to accept annihilation, she let go -- and then realised she still existed as pure consciousness and she made the realisation that the dogma she'd been taught was wrong -- and she was ok with that and able to accept it without hesitation. Next, (as I was watching it all) we were in the tunnel and I saw her again for an instant. She saw the distant point of light and in an instant, she went to it.

If we can accept what is, there is always a way forward, no matter what we have believed in this lifetime. For the man Lynn described, he is, in effect, in his own hell because he is unwilling to accept the expanded reality within which he exists, but when he is ready to accept what is, it will fall away.

Peace & blessings
7L

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Had a small gene in your DNA been 'switched' the other way you wouldn't have written that post because your brain wouldn't have been hardwired to process anything religious/Spiritual.

Perhaps being spiritual is nothing to do with genes or DNA or any supposed hard-wiring in our brains. This suggests that consciousness is driven by the physical body.

Peace.

[7luminaries]

My experience with Azrael, where I watched and participated in the experience of the pre-death and death of this one human being (termed a cyborg and a non-human) tells me you are right.

This was a human being consciousness which was supposedly transferred by technology (with nanites for facilitation and repair and who knows what else) to many replicate bodies, after having been conceived on a "product farm" lab.

It's unclear what motivates you after several hundred years, other than the centre or core of your being, especially after who knows how many experiences or modifications you've had to your "original" consciousness and your "original" form.

Peace & blessings :Hug3:
7L

[Shivani Devi]

My mother is an atheist, a materialist and doesn't believe in an afterlife.
She has had a few Near Death Experiences, and all she has said about that, is there is darkness/blackness...like going into deep dreamless sleep...So she still doesn't believe in an afterlife.

Having said that, I have read accounts of Atheists and materialists who have had profound Near Death Experiences, saw the Light, felt the Love and their lives have been changed forever.

So, I really cannot say.

[EdmundJohnstone]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

My mother is an atheist, a materialist and doesn't believe in an afterlife.
She has had a few Near Death Experiences, and all she has said about that, is there is darkness/blackness...like going into deep dreamless sleep...So she still doesn't believe in an afterlife.

Having said that, I have read accounts of Atheists and materialists who have had profound Near Death Experiences, saw the Light, felt the Love and their lives have been changed forever.

So, I really cannot say.

It seems that everyone gets what they wish in the end, that is ok. But it sort of does not make sense if the person has an eternal soul to perish just because that person is not a believer, and that he or she does not want to experience an afterlife, I don't get this .

This sad experience, in my opinion (don't take it as fact) can be due to

1)Induced subconscious of the non-believer, your mother in this case

2)It might just have happened but your mother forgot the NDE, like a dream in a sleep you forget when waking up.

3)It might as well be that her physical body has not been severed enough to experience an NDE

4)Maybe she is just her physical body

Originally Posted by iamthat

Perhaps being spiritual is nothing to do with genes or DNA or any supposed hard-wiring in our brains. This suggests that consciousness is driven by the physical body.

Peace.

It's a fact that your genes - amongst other things - can determine whether or not you can process Spirituality. The hardwiring I was talking about is the physical neurological framework that your brain uses to process information. and as far as the brain is concerned there's no difference between Spiritual information and any other kind. Your psychology also plays more of a part than most people want to admit to, as does your subconscious. Not only that but some people are pre-disposed for a belief in God also because of genetics, according to science. And by the way, Spirituality's maxim of "We are here to learn the lessons" also suggest that consciousness is driven by the physical body. The hardwiring or the neurological processes of the brain are not 'supposed', they're scientific facts that it seems you don't seem to have.

By the way, did you know that the subconscious makes all the choices, then around 200 milliseconds later you become conscious of it, and you'll probably poo-poo this post because of cognitive dissonance.

If your Spirituality is driven by knowledge, reading books and forum discussions then your consciousness is driven by the physical body. It's what Tolle calls 'object consciousness', which is a lower level of consciousness to space consciousness.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

It's a fact that your genes - amongst other things - can determine whether or not you can process Spirituality. The hardwiring I was talking about is the physical neurological framework that your brain uses to process information. and as far as the brain is concerned there's no difference between Spiritual information and any other kind. Your psychology also plays more of a part than most people want to admit to, as does your subconscious. Not only that but some people are pre-disposed for a belief in God also because of genetics, according to science. And by the way, Spirituality's maxim of "We are here to learn the lessons" also suggest that consciousness is driven by the physical body. The hardwiring or the neurological processes of the brain are not 'supposed', they're scientific facts that it seems you don't seem to have.

Perhaps some of us do not share your beliefs in science, and we question the so-called facts. There is more to a human being than genetics.

Hardwiring suggests that certain processes of the brain are unalterable, whereas new discoveries in neuroplasticity suggest that the brain is far more malleable and can transform itself in response to experience.

The theories of science are continually changing, and that which is considered true today may be rejected tomorrow. So instead of stating all your assertions as if they are incontrovertible facts, why not acknowledge that they are simply current scientific theory which may well change over time.

Peace.

Originally Posted by iamthat

So instead of stating all your assertions as if they are incontrovertible facts

Saying spirituality is "physically determined" is quite the misnomer.