Can a truly spiritual person eat meat?

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by ocean breeze

Yep, that's pretty much me. I clean plate. I don't like to waste food especially meat, milk, fruits, and vegetables. It would feel disrespectful if i threw away a perfectly good pork chop without a good reason. Or to not enjoy the meal.

Wow I knew it..hehe

I grew up in a large family and so most of our meal times were staggered to accommodate each ones life. My poor mother..I felt for her. It was rare to get a meal over and done with in one sitting..In this way neither of my parents forced fed us they were too tired and too busy and it was easier to just accommodate each ones needs, to save on personal energy..lol.

The Rican in me loves to cook and eat anyway hence i can never really diet.

I love my food. I don't believe in diets..haha.. I am such a basic cook nowdays, (lots of leafy greens, greens, lentils, chick peas, eggs, fruit, seeds and nuts, minimal meat, soups) simple is best for my body now, but I love a nice meal, carefully prepared with love and healthy beautiful fillings..and I love my occasional coffee..

lol ... I was trying to be clearer. I really didn't know how to go about it. Were you at least pleased?

Yes you were, I see why it all tied in as it did. Bit of the past conditioning and a lot of you in it all ..haha.

Good, now go out and play.

I love playing, my inner child loves to play...

Originally Posted by naturesflow

That reads like a sound and wise response..
We have lost "touch" with nature (and our true nature) and so we choose lifestyles that need fast foods to match our non thinking, patterns of behaviours, that don't have time to listen and learn the ways of the land and all things connected. That...."Don't need to think about the how's and why's, where, what who, where did it come from, how did it come to be there" That don't consider the many aspects of life that we as humans can notice and take action to do so. That if they were to visit and witness "directly" the many ways in which our planet is carved, sourced and patterned to meet our overly gluttonous ways as humans, that "might" (yes I did say might) awaken and force (or even scare?) them to make healthier choices not only for themselves and their loved ones, but also for the cruel ways in which we destroy this planet to satisfy our own personal gain to meet our overly selfish ways..(phew that felt great to get out of me)

But then, there are fat pigs (artificially fattened) that play in mud sty's. fed by humans, created for them by humans...So it all makes sense really doesn't it?

Hey there and thank you.

That about sums up the puppets that most humans have become. Sad thing to have to say but most commercial competition is who can grab the strings to get the puppets to jerk into action. Even from the enquirers so much is hidden to prevent them researching potential damage to their health. I mean, let's face it, cancers are occurring in increasingly young people. The medical profession claims it can't explain why (unless there's an obviously visible scapegoat and even then that usually arises from a log, expensive clinical study). I read reports about how there are nigh 500 chemicals in our bodies that should never be there. (For those interested, they can be found on the web from respectable outlets like the Telegraph or Guardian) but it only hits home when someone falls to an early cancer. People are SO distracted they never bother to ask.

Profit before people - don't tell them anything that might raise suspicion. Always deny - because few can afford legal action and the necessary lead-up to it, expert witnesses etc.

Well, one of the first marketing ploys I heard (apart from the Adam and Eve story) was "You don't sell the steak, you sell its sizzle."


Even so, the o/p who later posted: -

Originally Posted by Starlight

My view on this subject has no grey areas. In my opinion eating meat is wrong. It is perfectly possible to live life on a diet that does not include flesh. All the nutrients and vitamins can be found in other areas. To me its a matter of absorbing knowledge on the subject or choosing to remain blind to the facts.

would benefit from visiting some poor, famine-ridden countries to learn some home truths. I'm familiar with just one but there are many.

I did one of these finger-to-the-wind guestimates a while ago when the supermarkets were abundant with grapes from Africa. From the package dating I guessed my local bought in about 100kilos per day. Most of it is water. Again just a rough add up from Wiki there are just over 10,000 supermarkets in the UK. If every one imports 100kg per day - that adds up to 1,000,000 kg per day in the UK alone.

Africa is exporting close on 1000 tonnes (almost the same in imperial tons) of water every day. WHAT???!!! just on grapes. How much to Europe?

Good, innit............? not.

♥

[Snow Goose]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Africa is exporting close on 1000 tonnes (almost the same in imperial tons) of water every day. WHAT???!!! just on grapes. How much to Europe?

Good, innit............? not.

♥

This is something that I also realised a while back, it's absolute madness!

I try to eat and buy local, isnt always easy and yes I do give in and buy from supermarkets sometimes. I'm very lucky that I live in a good agricultural area that encourages the buy local mentality.

I'm a vegan and only cheat once or twice a week with products that have milk like Cesar dressing. and occasionally a slice of pizza. With that being said i wanted to point out that Buddha went vegan and then realized that it wasn't required. he also did water fasting and even fasted from everything at one point as well.

I noticed someone mentioned eating meat to ground. this works but if you eat food grown in the ground like potatoes and mushrooms then you can have the same affect. without the health risk's. From what i noticed so far as far as vibrations the foods that are high in vibration usually grow high up. nuts and certain fruits and such. The foods with lower vibes grown on or in the ground. If I'm floating I make a stop for some fried potatoes!!

I also want to state that yes veggies raise my vibes. but i did not and do not continue to stay 99% vegan because of spiritual practices. I only do it for the same reason i started. I got sick of being sick and tired..

But i can also argue that if one believes his food is healthy then it will be for him. so even my veganism is only healthier in my mind because i believe it be...

[Imzadi]

I think everyone's journey and how it relates to their own bodies and meat is unique. With that said, I think people that are aware of inhumane ways of processing meat products would try to be more conscientious on looking for more ethical choices on the market. I also understand that due to economics and availability, this is not always possible for everyone. We all are going through a process of growing and evolving for our souls at any particular point on our spiritual path and may choose different lifestyles as time goes by.

As for myself, I am a vegetarian because that's what I feel most and suitable for my path and body. It doesn't mean I am any more or less spiritual than a meat eater. I think perhaps what may determine a person's level of spiritual growth is the amount of judgement and criticism they hold on another person for their choice of food consumption. To each their own. :)

[Jyotir]

Originally Posted by Starlight

My view on this subject has no grey areas. In my opinion eating meat is wrong. It is perfectly possible to live life on a diet that does not include flesh. All the nutrients and vitamins can be found in other areas. To me its a matter of absorbing knowledge on the subject or choosing to remain blind to the facts.

Let me put this into perspective. Ask yourself why you shield your children from the horrid truth of where the steak on their plate comes from. I am not talking about saying that its a cow, or a pig or a sheep. I am saying the full horrific truth. A full blown explanation as to the slaughter house process, a lot of which is abuse (as seen in undercover video footage)
If as many people seem to say 'this is natural' when done correctly, then why hide it ?
It is because it is wrong and deep down the conscience knows it.

Touching upon what someone said earlier, most people are happy to eat meat blindly. They do not take into account the suffering and total disgraceful management of the factory farming industry that produced their meat. In fact they choose to not make the connection between the living animal and the meat. Why? Because it is Upsetting, disturbing and disgusting.

Someone said earlier "would you do the slaughtering yourself?" Would you lead a beautiful little lamb from a petting farm that you were hypocritically cooing over as cute into a room, then cut its head off, skin it and chop it up? Would you?

If you understand vibrations you will know that an often tortured and long suffering animal that becomes your food can only be of a disturbing element to your body, soul and well being when it enters your body. How can a once suffering animals' dead flesh be good for you?

Now to my original point. Spirituality. Compassion is paramount to this. If you are preaching compassion, love for all, insight and deep understanding then why would you choose to ignore all this? All sorts of excuses are given as to why and it amazes me. I do not hold with any of the excuses.

Compassion for all is the basis and foundation for a truly spiritual person. It can not be argued.

I sympathise, Starlight.

It seems - and this thread is a good demonstration - that human beings have, and will utilize their mental/intellectual capacities to rationalize the preservation of their animal tendencies vs. the transcending of them - stubbornly and proudly so.

Of course, as the race evolves and more people go the progressive way - as with racism, violence and abuse, sexual slavery, aggression, etc. - these animal tendencies become increasingly regressive by comparison.

It’s not a question that this is a matter of personal choice - of course it is; that’s a given - but that alone is not a reasonable justification for the resulting inertial ‘choice’ (is maintaining an inherited status-quo a choice?) for any number of far more cogent rational and progressive counter positions, in any number of ways.

Most human beings now live in urban environments, and are not ‘hunter-gatherers’, etc., etc., no matter how much they romanticize the past or wax admiringly of their noble ancestors. Eating dead animals - but especially ones that are produced cruelly by industrial methods, are not only arguably killing the planet by grossly inefficient utilization of resources with huge destructive environmental effects, but are also increasing vulnerability to epidemics; creating unnecessary disease causing pollution; causing unnecessary disease, pain and suffering to themselves as well as the animals, etc. - all for a questionable nutritional value that could be easily superseded in much more benign ways - there are far more detriments both personally and collectively than benefits from any point of view except “I enjoy the way death tastes”. No wonder our culture has a fascination with vampires: Vampires R Us!

Most people simply are inclined by inertia to preserve the status quo - the same way they stay with a family religion - and make little or no effort to inform themselves of the issues. There are any number of books, studies, etc. available now that were not available even 30 years ago that make irrefutable multi-dimensional cases for the benefits of vegetarianism -- rather than make a change which is probably one of the most personally empowering and socially/environmentally transforming choices any individual can make for the mitigation of the current suicidal socio/economic regimes now in place - largely based in animal tendencies and behavior, and deftly but callously managed by human intellectual facility.

To illustrate how unconsciously pervasive the conventional attitudes are:
While walking in one of the largest most densely populated cities in the world, I was politely confronted by one of 6 activists in designer T-shirts working for a well known legitimate national society dedicated to the prevention of cruelty to animals. They wanted a donation. I said,

“Ok, I’ll give you something right here and now,
if every representative here puts their own, “money where their mouth is”,
and honestly tells me who is, and who is not a vegetarian.”

Not one of them was a vegetarian - stunning! And I give them credit for admitting it. A few even admitted to not even considering it as necessarily consistent with their advocacy. Can you imagine?... People publicly lobbying for animal rights, but quite happy, and unconsciously so - incredibly - to consume these same animals who are slaughtered involuntarily (but humanely!!) for their mind-numbingly mechanistically hacked-up body parts? Wow! That's how unconsciously pervasive the prejudice is.

I guess the current dominant model is:
Death, suffering and profit should be efficient - whatever the greater cost - other efficiencies, or efficacies conveniently aside.

The thing is, it still comes down to personal choice and awareness -
why people should truly edify themselves on the matter instead of blindly persisting in old habits.
Collective change always comes first from individuals...
But then surprisingly, that positive collective change further supports and enables more satisfying lives for more individuals.

~ J

Originally Posted by Imzadi

I think perhaps what may determine a person's level of spiritual growth is the amount of judgement and criticism they hold on another person for their choice of food consumption. To each their own. :)

This is gold right here.

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

I sympathise, Starlight.

It seems - and this thread is a good demonstration - that human beings have, and will utilize their mental/intellectual capacities to rationalize the preservation of their animal tendencies vs. the transcending of them - stubbornly and proudly so.

Of course, as the race evolves and more people go the progressive way - as with racism, violence and abuse, sexual slavery, aggression, etc. - these animal tendencies become increasingly regressive by comparison.

It’s not a question that this is a matter of personal choice - of course it is; that’s a given - but that alone is not a reasonable justification for the resulting inertial ‘choice’ (is maintaining an inherited status-quo a choice?) for any number of far more cogent rational and progressive counter positions, in any number of ways.

Most human beings now live in urban environments, and are not ‘hunter-gatherers’, etc., etc., no matter how much they romanticize the past or wax admiringly of their noble ancestors. Eating dead animals - but especially ones that are produced cruelly by industrial methods, are not only arguably killing the planet by grossly inefficient utilization of resources with huge destructive environmental effects, but are also increasing vulnerability to epidemics; creating unnecessary disease causing pollution; causing unnecessary disease, pain and suffering to themselves as well as the animals, etc. - all for a questionable nutritional value that could be easily superseded in much more benign ways - there are far more detriments both personally and collectively than benefits from any point of view except “I enjoy the way death tastes”. No wonder our culture has a fascination with vampires: Vampires R Us!

Most people simply are inclined by inertia to preserve the status quo - the same way they stay with a family religion - and make little or no effort to inform themselves of the issues. There are any number of books, studies, etc. available now that were not available even 30 years ago that make irrefutable multi-dimensional cases for the benefits of vegetarianism -- rather than make a change which is probably one of the most personally empowering and socially/environmentally transforming choices any individual can make for the mitigation of the current suicidal socio/economic regimes now in place - largely based in animal tendencies and behavior, and deftly but callously managed by human intellectual facility.

To illustrate how unconsciously pervasive the conventional attitudes are:
While walking in one of the largest most densely populated cities in the world, I was politely confronted by one of 6 activists in designer T-shirts working for a well known legitimate national society dedicated to the prevention of cruelty to animals. They wanted a donation. I said,

“Ok, I’ll give you something right here and now,
if every representative here puts their own, “money where their mouth is”,
and honestly tells me who is, and who is not a vegetarian.”

Not one of them was a vegetarian - stunning! And I give them credit for admitting it. A few even admitted to not even considering it as necessarily consistent with their advocacy. Can you imagine?... People publicly lobbying for animal rights, but quite happy, and unconsciously so - incredibly - to consume these same animals who are slaughtered involuntarily (but humanely!!) for their mind-numbingly mechanistically hacked-up body parts? Wow! That's how unconsciously pervasive the prejudice is.

I guess the current dominant model is:
Death, suffering and profit should be efficient - whatever the greater cost - other efficiencies, or efficacies conveniently aside.

The thing is, it still comes down to personal choice and awareness -
why people should truly edify themselves on the matter instead of blindly persisting in old habits.
Collective change always comes first from individuals...
But then surprisingly, that positive collective change further supports and enables more satisfying lives for more individuals.

~ J

Hi Jyotir

Thank you for your response. I have read through lots of the responses and ..well what can I say. We really are all on different mile stones on the spiritual path. As with all subjects people will differ in their opinions but as is clear here people choose not to address the issue or worse, try to justify it.

As you pointed out when you asked the question of animal rights people "Who is vegetarian?" and it was none...this highlights the point. You can not jump on a band wagon and not back it up...for instance do not fight for animal rights and then eat their tortured flesh, and in the same sense to not claim compassion and spirituality and ignore the points I raised in my original post.
I am not really surprised at the responses, as I inwardly knew that not one person would be able to answer the questions and statements posted regarding shielding their children from the truth.
As predicted the statement has been ignored and glossed over and other points raised to avoid having to answer. This is the oldest trick in the book.

I am a realist with straight forward questions.

I thank you for your response in pointing out similar points
Kind Regards

[ocean breeze]

Originally Posted by Starlight

I am not really surprised at the responses, as I inwardly knew that not one person would be able to answer the questions and statements posted regarding shielding their children from the truth.
As predicted the statement has been ignored and glossed over and other points raised to avoid having to answer. This is the oldest trick in the book.

The question was for those who have children. Many on this thread like me may not have kids. There was no "if you had" question.

You also ignored questions and valid points directed at you. Why base a thread on a question if you aren't receptive of different view points?
Seems like you're trying to impose not inquire.

[soul-alchemy]

Originally Posted by Starlight

One of the main characteristics of being Spiritual is 'Compassion'. As spiritual development matures, compassion and other good qualities become more and more manifest. As the character becomes uplifted and purified the behaviour i.e speech and actions automatically also become uplifted and purified. Therefore a compassionate diet is a sign of genuine spirituality.

Individuals may still be basically good even if they are consuming meat. However when compassion blossoms more fully advanced souls refrain from the inherently cruel meat eating diet. Furthermore the eating of flesh lowers the vibrations and pollutes the soul thus represents a negative influence on the individuals' true happiness and spiritual development.

This is a metaphysical and spiritual fact as taught by great spiritual beings throughout the ages and can be seen as self-evident by sincere people who are not deaf to their conscience.

There are plenty of spiritual people that eat meat... the Dalai Lama is one of them...