What I believe full enlightenment is

[kassalee]

Matt Kahn refers to the ego as the younger sibling of the soul...

An inspirational song I feel exemplifies enlightenment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FscI...A&index=6&t=0s

[sentient]

If we bring cultural differences into this …..
Just sketching …..

Westerners perhaps think about ‘Ascension of Consciousness’ or ‘Attaining Enlightenment’ in linear consciousness terms ………

Imo. that is not indigenous thinking, at least from my personal knowledge, because when you truly get to the truth of something - you get it spherically ……. in spherical consciousness terms ….

How could I express this ……?
The ‘Holy Grail’ or ‘Spiritual Path’ is not so much of a beeline journey from A to B, but more of a circular expansion into becoming more aware of the Subtle Realms (your ‘weather’ expands ….) yet at the same time it is a narrowing journey towards an empty/hollow inner core/centre …. like climbing a ‘Holy Mountain’ ….

Is it more difficult for linear consciousness to understand things paradoxically?

*

[running]

Originally Posted by sentient

If we bring cultural differences into this …..
Just sketching …..

Westerners perhaps think about ‘Ascension of Consciousness’ or ‘Attaining Enlightenment’ in linear consciousness terms ………

Imo. that is not indigenous thinking, at least from my personal knowledge, because when you truly get to the truth of something - you get it spherically ……. in spherical consciousness terms ….

How could I express this ……?
The ‘Holy Grail’ or ‘Spiritual Path’ is not so much of a beeline journey from A to B, but more of a circular expansion into becoming more aware of the Subtle Realms (your ‘weather’ expands ….) yet at the same time it is a narrowing journey towards an empty/hollow inner core/centre …. like climbing a ‘Holy Mountain’ ….

Is it more difficult for linear consciousness to understand things paradoxically?

*

its beyond time and beyond ones present life. but stretching in all directions. and could be seen as a circle back to where one started. for me it was about clearing through to where i once started. it seemed. im not so sure it matters how the mind interprets it. but that one becomes open to whats beyond the mind. and then it floods into ones experince. that flood of bliss and silence some call the self. as its who we really are. so its in a sense not an accomplishment. but a natural acknowledgment. natural in that you cant acknowledge it by understanding. but by experience.

[sentient]

^
Yea, I’m kinda with you there running.

And what you wrote in Buddhist section rang true for me:

another way to put it. bliss and silence doesn't happen in a vacuum. but by being open. that openess is celebrated as joy and silence. where as just from the second chakra is experienced from emotions. as an empath. or through the crown as in mediumship.

“That openness” – exactly.

If one goes ‘spherical and spatial’ one is like the 4 faces of the Buddha, seeing into all directions. What could be simpler.

If one tries to explain ‘that openness’ in linear terms, one will probably end up with a thread 150 pages long and nowhere near getting the concept ‘right’ with so much 'ground' and scriptures etc. to cover.

*

Originally Posted by sentient

Is it more difficult for linear consciousness to understand things paradoxically?

Not really, because consciousness isn't linear and it doesn't understand per se, it just becomes conscious of. It's the mind that thinks in linear terms. Similarly with "spherical," that's an understanding of the mind because the mind thinks in pictures or diagrams. Understanding and paradoxes come from the brain/mind, they're cognition rather than consciousness. Paradoxes happen in binary thinking when there is 'this' and there is 'that', and one should cancel the other out. This is what's known as cognitive dissonance and it's a cognitive dysfunction.

The pre-Taoist Alchemists called it Triplex Unity where there is 'this', there is 'that' and there is 'both'. The 'results' of a dichotomy if you like. The best visualisation is the Vesica Pisces and the overlap where 'this' and 'that' produce 'both'.

Spherical means you come back to the beginning, spiral (like climbing a mountain) means you go around and upwards and once in a while you don't come back to Square One but you're above it, so you can gain new truths from a different perspective. In the 'this' of linear and 'that' of spherical comes the 'both' of spiral.

Consciousness encompasses.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

An area that is hardly studied is tonal vs non-tonal languages.

Which came first?

Tonal languages seem to be far superior to non-tonal languages so why is it less people speak tonal languages?

Hey BigJ, Well they're all tonal but not all formally tonal :)

Formally tonal languages would be most concurrent with the following, historically: where vocalisation is limited due to physical structures (earlier forms of humanity), OR where vocalisation is not necessarily the only or consistent norm, due to direct communication and transmission (more advanced forms of humanity)...and/or BOTH, LOL....

I think earlier Terran-based humanity may have utilising sign language and also some direct communication. Other humanity (including from elsewhere) may easily have had both forms, spoken and direct (as well as written of course)...and that spoken language 1) developed out of tonal+sign language for terran-based humanity and also 2) was also commonly used with us by other humanity, to help us learn and retain knowledge of (eventual) written communication and records of events and knowledge..i.e. history and foundational technologies, so that we could build and learn from our history long-term, as well as from our present environment.

Theoretically, direct communication of course does not need specific words but does require precise concepts and intent. However these things are not well developed for many. The direct communication with basic signage used by early terran humanity would thus have been deep in emotional context but limited in the sharing of many kinds of more complex intellectual knowledge and technologies necessary for sustaining a growing civilisation of humanity. Equally and very importantly key moral and ethical concepts need to be clearly developed and articulated, i.e. social norms, basic laws and standards, both for engaging with those you know and especially for engaging with strangers. Thus spoken words and their associated concepts (both concrete and intangible concepts) could aid in helping early Terran humanity to discern and better solidify those concepts and intentions, within a shared cultural context, and extend and share these things with an increasingly broader humanity.

Primarily, we need to maintain the conceptual connections between spoken communication and our written records for the purposes of attaining and sharing wisdom. As we are already well-designed to acquire intellectual knowledge of our material realm, though this is the key secondary aspect. Otherwise our lifespans are long enough to acquire intellectual knowledge but too short to accumulate wisdom and the long-term, integrated perspective necessary to generate wisdom. And thus we would be doomed as a species, if our spiritual and emotional and moral growth could not be advanced at the levels of our sociocultural and spiritual institutions, which ARE designed to outlive us and to provide structure and guidance.

Still, I agree completely that -- having said all this -- we also need to (re-)incorporate direct communication. Direct communication is a natural outcome, acquisition, and gift of awakening. As more of humanity awaken and align with centre, this particular faculty (of deeper direct awareness of themselves & others) becomes available to a growing number of humanity. It is our future: i.e., direct communication AND a vast and near-total transparency to one another in the long-obscured realm of intent and thought. Vast transparency but with appropriate respect and boundaries -- a transparency which cannot and should not be turned off with rising awareness, but rather only managed as needed for balance and respect for others' boundaries and privacy.

There is increasingly "nowhere to hide", LOL...so the comfortable fog and ethical gaps & comparmentalisation of the modern era is dissipating like smoke. Humanity will find that we have to do once more as our ancestors did until very recent times....i.e., live in near total transparency to one another. Historically this was due to the closeness and lack of privacy of most human societies, and now is due to penetration of that obscurity by rising consciousness (limitless, unbounded). By rising consciousness even more so than the increasing pervasiveness of technology and its institutions, which are still manipulated by a very coarse amorality and base ethic of egregious, unbridled greed, lust for power and control, and for porn & other vicarious exploitation of others.

To rising consciousness, all of this is revealed as it is, and at all levels...including that of the individual as well as at the institutional, societal, and global (foundational human) levels.
To be acknowledged, accepted, celebrated, and harnessed for our own well-being and ultimately, for the greater well-being of all. It will only require our courage to name the truth as we see it, and to allow others space to own their portion of that truth, such as their own words and deeds...as well as their intent and thought, and any hypocrisy or lack of integrity thereof

Peace & blessings
7L

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hey BigJ, Well they're all tonal but not all formally tonal :)

Formally tonal languages would be most concurrent with the following, historically: where vocalisation is limited due to physical structures (earlier forms of humanity), OR where vocalisation is not necessarily the only or consistent norm, due to direct communication and transmission (more advanced forms of humanity)...and/or BOTH, LOL....
7L

English is a non-tonal language whereas Mandarin is a tonal language.

Paleo Hebrew may have been a tonal language whereas Modern Hebrew is non-tonal.

A study of tonal and non-tonal languages seems to indicate the more
complicated tonal languages may have preceded non-tonal languages.

The same issue involves number systems. It appears sexagesimal (base 60)
came on the scene at or before the decimal (base 10) system.

Tonal languages and the sexagesimal number system are more complicated then
their non-tonal languages and decimal number system which dominates today.
Evolutionist would expect exactly the opposite.

Originally Posted by sentient

^
Yea, I’m kinda with you there running.

And what you wrote in Buddhist section rang true for me:


“That openness” – exactly.

If one goes ‘spherical and spatial’ one is like the 4 faces of the Buddha, seeing into all directions. What could be simpler.

If one tries to explain ‘that openness’ in linear terms, one will probably end up with a thread 150 pages long and nowhere near getting the concept ‘right’ with so much 'ground' and scriptures etc. to cover.

*

The merging Heart knows no bounds.

[r6r6]

[quote=BigJohn--Evolutionist would expect exactly the opposite.
[/quote]

Binary preceded all of those accounting methods. Ex heave and ho. Go and no-go and the digital age ---open-closed--- is also based on binary system.

The oldest abacus ever found was Chinese and it had 13 columns. That is into the trillions or trillionths.

The toy one I have has 13 columns.

.........Space( Time *) i (* Time )Space.............