Realizations and conclusions of the mind and beyond ..

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Realisations and conclusions eh? Most probably, there is a time to be "Spiritual" and a time...not!

One should always be spiritual, there is never a time not to be.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by JustBe

I’m practising right now in my own process, non reaction, I would probably practice that. I value my energy in other ways now, so I try not to leak it out in the face of others reacting.

I don’t see non reaction and moving as being a doormat. In fact I see it as empowering myself in the face of reaction.

But that’s just my way and what is important for me now in my life and around others.

I use to do the opposite to, looking at both sides, I would say it's a choice. I agree, the idea of the doormat is only a thought.

[davidsun]

This is in response to the shopping cart 'right-of-way' conflict scenario you sketched out somewhere (can't find it right now), SD:

If I noticed that I kept on have such/similar 'spiritually upsetting' encounters (more than, say, one might expect to have occasionally, just on a random basis), I would conclude that I was drawing such a 'predicamant' to myself and thus giving myself the opportunity to learn to stop doing so (instead of repeating such 'script' ad nauseum).

The first step I would take in such process would be disengage from any emotions relating to such encounters as being self-vs-other, win-or-lose contests - so as not to have such emotions 'bring' more such kinds of events my way.

How might one disengage therefrom? Any number of ways come to mind. One would be to laugh at the 'ridiculousness' of experiencing such a trivial 'problem' as being 'upsetting', or even as being 'a problem' at all.

It's really no more than a 'karmic' puzzle to for you to play and have fun with unravelling (instead of experiencing it as and getting hooked into defending against is a HUUUGE ego-assault )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABXtWqmArUU

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by davidsun

I would conclude that I was drawing such a 'predicamant' to myself and thus giving myself the opportunity to learn to stop doing so (instead of repeating such 'script' ad nauseum).

Alternatively, or in addition, I would thank Shiva (or your spirit guides or whoever you regard as 'pulling strings' for you) for so diligently - only the best 'teachers' do that [!] - making sure such opportunities kept on coming your way.

Gratitude 'works' wonders, spiritualists know!

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by JustBe

I’m practising right now in my own process, non reaction, I would probably practice that. I value my energy in other ways now, so I try not to leak it out in the face of others reacting.

I don’t see non reaction and moving as being a doormat. In fact I see it as empowering myself in the face of reaction.

But that’s just my way and what is important for me now in my life and around others.

I can relate to your ideas here. For me, non reaction is a tricky business because the mind reacts automatically. For me, the key is not about trying to suppress or control or stop or deal with whatever the mind comes up with or does, the key for me is to have a "space" between "me" and my mind.

If somebody does something "bad" to me, my mind may automatically react and get mad, that's what the mind is programmed to do. But if I am self aware and ignoring mind at that time, there is no reaction. If I am just living life normally, fully following and identified with my mind at the time, I will react. There is no way not to. In that case, my personality and conditioning will be in charge with what my reaction is.

I think nobody can become spiritual. The mind can be conditioned to be better or worse as far as a person though. But if we can recognize and disassociate with our minds, that's where this "spiritual" concept comes in. It's just our natural unidentified state. No reason to label it spiritual or anything else and if we are in that state, we are not labeling anyway. But yea it is of a "higher" nature as the identified with mind state involves less awareness.

Words get tricky here. See if we follow mind, we create a certain thing. If we disassociate from mind, we create something different. We don't really become anything other than what we always are. That's what I mean by we don't really become spiritual. We just project different qualities depending on what we are associating with or not associating with.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by muffin

Good afternoon 7luminaries

Here the fly in the ointment, we are all unique as said more than once, so no I don't agree.

It can happen over a very short period of time

Morning Muffin!
What you say is also true.
Certainly, a LOT can change after any deep realisation and you are not the same after as prior. These things can and do reset your orientation in various ways.

Yet, in retrospect, I would often say it was just the beginning.
The beginning of an ongoing unfolding, which many more realisations to come.
That's perhaps a better way to say it, and thanks for your focus on the change in that next moment. Also important.

In sum, this is why illumination is so very helpful
Peace & blessings
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey :)

As Mr Muffin Man has pointed out somethings are understood / integrated in a short amount of time. That is correct I would say, it really depends on how fixated one is initially.

What I mean is in this regard is, the actual realization itself post realization without doubt is known to be the realization of what you are.

I think everyone would be in agreement with that because the realization itself is the same for everyone.

Hey there :) Yes...it is the same at the highest level...i.e., the realisation of what you are. But to me, it's interesting that the process and the experience and the texture and focus of it and so forth is all so very individual, isn't it? Just as each of us are unique.

Growing up in the country, we were little animals just like all the other little animals, one with the land and sky and water. I'm not sure if I ever had one big awakening because I already knew I was connected and oriented to healing. But like so many, I have definitely experienced many big awakenings that were truly revelatory, which re-oriented me and deeply shifted my perceptions.

The ones that shook me the hardest and for the longest were not about the true nature of who we are...though a few of those revelations about the nature of our reality have been truly mind bending almost beyond belief. In fact, I find the mind-benders completely exhilarating and fascinating. So, the general truth of what is regarding my true nature (or anyone else's)...that's rather a piece of cake, even though yes, mind boggling and overwhelming at times, for certain.

Instead, the ones that shook my mental stability and shattered me emotionally had to do with the nature of my particular being and existence. The uniqueness my karma, my other lives, my particular place on the map of souls (individuated consciousness) and my relationship to all other individuated consciousness. Yet, just as you say...this personal aspect of awakening...this too is ultimately universal in that we will all experience this in our own way. It's like giving birth...you know it's coming and you know you're going to go through it...and that's how we all get here -- but everyone's experience is separate and distinct.

TBH it wasn't even many of my particular revelations per se that were so difficult, but rather it was the fallout, so to speak. The day-to-day living in awakening of the particulars of my true nature. In all seriousness, integrating the particular bits has been rather brutal, and broadly speaking, the reality on the ground has proven to be in stark opposition to our centre and to alignment with our centre. Humanity at this time and Western culture in particular stresses individual isolation and there is little to no support or sharing or kindness for one another on this journey. I did however actively try to reach out to a few folks who were self aware and walking their path, all of whom were either soul family, best friends, mum, mentors, or guides. Of this reasonably small circle, some were extremely supportive, some were manipulative & looking for sex, and some were cruel or apathetic (or both). Some appeared to at times take pleasure in my confusion and pain, or else saw it as an opportunity for mockery. It was a mixed bag, for certain.

At this time, very few can love (in being and doing) authentically, and by that I mean even in simple lovingkindness and equanimity. This awareness tends to propel the awakened away from conditional attachment or orientation or demands, and toward only the simplest and/or most foundational of connections...our foundational connection as souls, and our temporal connections here on earth. (The temporal ones include Gaia, and all its creatures and life on earth, as well as our family, friends, neighbours, and all those whom we engage with day-to-day).

Of course I wouldn't say awakening in this time and place (Gaia, modern society) wasn't educational just as all things and experiences are. As of course it has been. I have gained or realised many gifts and many insights over the years. All things (and crises) have their opportunities and silver linings. Wisdom and discernment...and foundational awareness and knowledge...these things are costly gifts, they may have shattered or even broken our minds or our hearts...and therefore they are precious.

What I observe is that, for most, even the deepest foundational soul connections still normally have to be "translated" into a temporal connection (fam, friend, neighbor, etc) in order for (not all but) many to extend kindness and consideration. Perhaps that's because most are not awakened, and that may surely be one likely reason. But perhaps it's also in part because we are wired to learn and grow in general by manifesting our lives and our actions here in the material realm. It's why we're here. So even if unawakened, they follow the template in this sense. If awakened, it should be just with ever wiser and more conscious choices toward lovingkindness and equanimity, I reckon. It's all about being here now, and being love now, and about the connection between them, I suppose. That's what we're supposed to experience and figure out, one way or the other, and for so many of us, that call is first and foremost to love and honour our own being and our own highest good, equally to that of all others, in order to heal and learn. For others, the call is first and foremost to love and honour the well-being and highest good of others, equally to themselves, in order to heal and learn.

Those are my thoughts...what about you, Dazzer?

Now if one for whatever reason believes wholeheartedly that the realization gives one the notion thereafter that everything is illusory then it's likened to a hardcore atheist who won't give up their belief.

If you see a hardcore self realized individual 10 years down the line still believing in everyone/thing is illusory based and no-one is here per se then the integration isn't digested so to speak perhaps for many a reason, like denial or simply because one has such a fixed position in regards to their beliefs.

Post realization I didn't for a minute believe that the mind-body-world was unreal or lacked any real substance and I didn't think that my family were figments of my imagination etc, etc ..

LOL, agreed! Good thing, that. Imagine the things you could do or say if you thought no one else was real or mattered...your poor folks' hearts would have been utterly crushed if you spoke and acted as if they were ultimately meaningless, ultimately illusory, or didn't have beating hearts and such. Strangers may not have thought twice, LOL, hey just another nutter, but it's those you love who would have been crushed. I think this sort of outlook can (if taken hold of) cause a great deal of damage and no doubt has done.

I don't know about you or anyone else here on the forums but I didn't really have too much thought about the philosophy of life prior to my realization I was just trying to recover and get strong in myself from life's sufferings. This I believe as a focus is part of the energy behind self enquiries that reveal certain aspects of self it's because of the dedication / discipline, the sincerity ..

I actually kept quiet as some know for quite a few years and didn't even want to talk about any of it .. but there comes a time and looking back on it all this was a time for integration and many have experienced for themselves what we call downloads and upgrades in regards to ourselves on many levels, even our d.n.a. so that certain light frequencies of information can be intuitively known to us, stuff that simply rolls off the tongue that seems to come from nowhere lol ..

This again is a very in-depth topic regarding how the information becomes us and is concluded post realization ..

x dazzle x

Yes...agreed. I do freely tap and acknowledge the guides as sources of inspiration. It's a ongoing 2-way tap. I want them to download as much as I can possibly handle and then some. Michael has given me stuff in response to trying to understand our reality over the last few yrs which literally took months to fully conceptually grasp. And it was ALL initially related to me trying to better understand my own particular existence, and why it was as it was, relationally & with regard to that map of souls (thanks Gabriel). As in, what Michael said was overlaid on Gabriel's initial instruction...these things have taken several years and there was a lot of hard, brutal work going on in the meantime. So much of your journey is just you and the guides. From time to time one of them may say, hey good work. It's not then but it's in those other times that you need it. When you feel nary a soul from your inner, semi-aware soul family is there for you day-to-day, LOL. Hopefully we don't feel that way too often but sometimes we do. And sometimes that's the way it looks and seems to be too, on the ground. Times like that, it feels pretty goddamn good to go back and replay what they have said once or twice over the years ;)

That's why we have temporal connections too, isn't it? Those attachments folks mention. So we can hug our kids, pet our pets, chat it up with fam and friends and neighbours, and deal with our fuller awareness of our reality. Because before your awakening, you knew pretty much where most of humanity was at, and it wasn't in a kind or admirable place. Then, after awakening, you know exactly where many of (at least the semi-aware members of) your larger soul fam are at. And it's just right where most of humanity is at, no more and no less. Many of your soul fam are just as likely to be cruel, manipulative, greedy, callous, and coarse or loathesome as humanity at large. Just to add insult to injury, it hurts in a particularly personal way, which you feel ever more deeply after awakening...because you are more closely connected with your soul fam. And in general, you are more deeply aware of all that is.

Meanwhile, just like the rest of humanity, you know you can't rely on most of your soul fam further than you can throw them... not until & unless they get what authentic love is, and can LIVE IT on the ground. And that hurts too, and also in that particularly individual way. E.g., if men, most still want to have casual sex with you as a woman...and most barely give a toss for the soul fam connection otherwise...even when they flat out admit the tie. Have they no shame, LOL? It's just ultra creepy and ultra vile to shove your inhumanity in the face of your soul fam. Likewise with any sort of deep betrayal or deceit, for sure. It makes you kind of long for the innocence of your ignorance, even after you'd come to terms with this regarding humanity at large . It's the personal stuff, IMO, that is the most deeply rooted and thus the most potentially traumatic and insidious. And that personal stuff carries over, so I suppose my experiences and impressions are not unusual by any means, LOL.

Again, those are my thoughts & like you, I don't think I've quite put them out there like this. But that is what this thread is about, and I think some of what I'm experiencing has only just come forward since you started this thread, so thank you for that. I think it's a probably a good thing to start sharing this sort of thing...because I hope we can help one another in the sharing. Other than the guides -- we've only just got one another, our fellow human beings.

What are some of your thoughts or experiences along these lines, post-awakening?

Peace & blessings
7L

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by davidsun

This is in response to the shopping cart 'right-of-way' conflict scenario you sketched out somewhere (can't find it right now), SD:

If I noticed that I kept on have such/similar 'spiritually upsetting' encounters (more than, say, one might expect to have occasionally, just on a random basis), I would conclude that I was drawing such a 'predicamant' to myself and thus giving myself the opportunity to learn to stop doing so (instead of repeating such 'script' ad nauseum).

The first step I would take in such process would be disengage from any emotions relating to such encounters as being self-vs-other, win-or-lose contests - so as not to have such emotions 'bring' more such kinds of events my way.

How might one disengage therefrom? Any number of ways come to mind. One would be to laugh at the 'ridiculousness' of experiencing such a trivial 'problem' as being 'upsetting', or even as being 'a problem' at all.

It's really no more than a 'karmic' puzzle to for you to play and have fun with unravelling (instead of experiencing it as and getting hooked into defending against is a HUUUGE ego-assault)

Originally Posted by davidsun

Alternatively, or in addition, I would thank Shiva (or your spirit guides or whoever you regard as 'pulling strings' for you) for so diligently - only the best 'teachers' do that [!] - making sure such opportunities kept on coming your way.

Gratitude 'works' wonders, spiritualists know!

If you wish to constructively engage with my understanding/wisdom/coaching, try 'following' the above suggestions and get back to me (via PM would also be fine!) by reporting any 'results' - including any difficulties executing them.

[muffin]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Morning Muffin!
What you say is also true.
Certainly, a LOT can change after any deep realisation and you are not the same after as prior. These things can and do reset your orientation in various ways.

Yet, in retrospect, I would often say it was just the beginning.
The beginning of an ongoing unfolding, which many more realisations to come.
That's perhaps a better way to say it, and thanks for your focus on the change in that next moment. Also important.

In sum, this is why illumination is so very helpful
Peace & blessings
7L

Good afternoon 7luminaries

The different between me, you and daz is you two go in to the whys and wherefores, as I say a lot on here do and I still look up words to find out what you guys are going on about.

For me your on a gentle path, not saying it going be easy, it's not as you already finding out, but at the same time your going to learn a lot about yourself, simply giving you time.

Some of us aren't that lucky, we get thrown in the deep end sink or swim.

As you said, "The beginning of an ongoing unfolding, which many more realizations to come", welcome to your Christmas present

[neil]

Originally Posted by lemex

One should always be spiritual, there is never a time not to be.

It is a huge misconception to refer to us needing to be spiritual..'we all' are spiritual beings/entities as we live & breath at this very moment, we are nothing else but that.

It all comes down to being loving OR unloving spiritual beings/entities & of a higher OR lower morality.

Those persons without the flesh.."spiritual beings"..have a choice to be loving OR unloving, and there are many of both kinds & many varying kinds inbetween. & how does a person tell them to be more spiritual, because they can not be any more spiritual ever...But they can be more loving, radiant & abundant.

Instead of saying to a person that they should always be spiritual or more spiritual.
a person should say to another, "that they should be more personally morally loving.

We are not humans...We are spiritual beings.