spirituality sucks

[Miss Hepburn]

Yes, that was a rant..it was good!

[Dazzle]

Originally Posted by Lucky

This post was so necessary. Being fairly new on my journey, every topic I've googled or researched leads me to several, I mean several people who seem to put themselves on a pedestal...whether they're channeling some other-worldly being who has the universe all figured out, or teachers/speakers who possess the key to true happiness with a monthly membership fee of...$$$ whatever. Thankfully, my inner skeptic, lack of money to spare on this, as well as my " higher self" knows better than to be sucked in. Yes, there are great tools out there, great books, and inspirational speakers and YouTube videos, etc., I'm not suggesting that some info isnt real, but I am smart enough to piece it all together and make sense of it in my own head and follow my own path. Amen to that.

EXACTLY!! I also have my inner skeptic....that is what made me question what was written on this thread. I am a very deep thinking. I stay true to myself. I will read and take what I feel resonates with me and my skeptical part tosses the rest out. There is a chance I am not in a place to understand or accept the tossed out part...yet at the same time...I may have already "been there done that" and it no longer has the same meaning as it once had. All are on different levels in their thinking. That's neither good or bad. it just is...for them.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by running

yes. if you read further you'll see my opinion of how it also can be a problem if taken to far. many lose the value of their own experience.

Human beings are social creatures, forever wanting their existence and experiences validated by another member of the species.

Problem being of course, that all spiritual experiences are self-validating. They have their own intrinsic worth and value which can neither be measured nor shared in the social environment.

This is why religions were thus created.

The spiritual journey is a solitary one, with alone-ness = all-one-ness, but people still require their emotional needs to be met in this regard...they hope somebody else will know or understand what it is they are going through, when that is impossible. In regards to spirituality, there is no frame of reference that can have a tangible, measurable effect.

This is why they bury their heads in books and engage in philosophical debates, instead of merely valuing themselves or their own experience.

I could write a treatise on the Bhagavad Gita and engender much interest, because it has been composed by a saint/sage who others would consider to be more 'self-realised' than what they consider me to be.

I could write my own tale about divine love and personal experience that would see no comment or reply whatsoever.

This is why such emphasis is placed on spiritual literature and personages with a great 'spiritual reputation' because it's hoped that they would know much more about the subject than a householder posting on a spiritual forum would.

The art of tradition is dying...some of us still try and keep the old myths and legends alive, to make the experience more personal...however, it is the impersonal, intellectual stuff that appeals to most in this current cycle.

In a way, spirituality 'sucks' because it's so full of concepts and teachings which have helped others...but when we try to apply them to ourselves, nothing seems to 'work'. Thus I am reminded of an old, wise saying;

"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail". Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Baile]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

This is why religions were thus created.

I could write my own tale about divine love and personal experience that would see no comment or reply whatsoever.

In a way, spirituality 'sucks' because it's so full of concepts and teachings which have helped others...but when we try to apply them to ourselves, nothing seems to 'work'.

I remember back in March you were speaking like this quite a bit, how people don't seem to care about what you share, and never reply to your posts, and so forth. I'll share why I seldom reply, if you're truly wondering why. This post of yours is the prefect example really. You're pushing a particular agenda, one I personally can't relate to at all. You feel spirituality is wrong somehow, and that religion is the proper path. You constantly rail against "I AM" consciousness and all things new-age. And you're doing this is a Spirituality forum. So of course many people are not going to feel particularly attuned to any messages promoting religion.

And I pretty much think the opposite of you, yet I get the exact same non-response most of the time. Religion is a decayed and dying system of belief, a relic of the Pisces Age consciousness. It's time has come and gone This is why churches are closing, why 60-70% of people in Europe according to polls have no religious affiliation. Religion will have all but disappeared in another several decades. Whereas spirituality is the new consciousness form for the Aquarian Age. But while I promote spirituality as a self-realization path (the I AM path!), most people just want to talk about true flames, ascension and weird shadows in their room at night. Me, I say all shadows at night are weird and spooky, and now what meditative, self-realization work did you do today?

Point of all this: if you can't laugh about it all, you're taking it way too seriously.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Baile

I remember back in March you were speaking like this quite a bit, how people don't seem to care about what you share, and never reply to your posts, and so forth. I'll share why I seldom reply, if you're truly wondering why. This post of yours is the prefect example really. You're pushing a particular agenda, one I personally can't relate to at all. You feel spirituality is wrong somehow, and that religion is the proper path. You constantly rail against "I AM" consciousness and all things new-age. And you're doing this is a Spirituality forum. So of course many people are not going to feel particularly attuned to any messages promoting religion.

And I pretty much think the opposite of you, yet I get the exact same non-response most of the time. Religion is a decayed and dying system of belief, a relic of the Pisces Age consciousness. It's time has come and gone This is why churches are closing, why 60-70% of people in Europe according to polls have no religious affiliation. Religion will have all but disappeared in another several decades. Whereas spirituality is the new consciousness form for the Aquarian Age. But while I promote spirituality as a self-realization path (the I AM path!), most people just want to talk about true flames, ascension and weird shadows in their room at night. Me, I say all shadows at night are weird and spooky, and now what meditative, self-realization work did you do today?

Point of all this: if you can't laugh about it all, you're taking it way too seriously.

I have shifted my focus quite a lot since March, even though I speak about the human need to be validated as a whole, however you have made me aware of a generalisation I was drawing to that effect. Thank you.

Now, I guess spurred on by reading The Celestine Prophecy, I am aware that I existed within a 'poor me' drama class, being influenced by too much instigation from my past. I was looking to recoup/steal the energy from without instead of from within and from others instead of The Divine One.

Most of my meditative, self-realisation work now consists of mindful awareness combined with self-introspection....haven't quite managed to sit cross-legged on the floor in navel contemplation or doing much selfless service for others still...but certain things are just not 'my thing' even if they once were.

I just feel like religion is where a group of people who hold similar beliefs come together for fellowship/satsanga or social chit-chat under the guise of a set of dogmas with the whole principle of 'safety in numbers' not too far at the back of their minds...maybe I am wrong about it though.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by The Necromancer

I just feel like religion is where a group of people who hold similar beliefs come together under the guise of a set of dogmas with the whole principle of 'safety in numbers'

Okay and that's my take as well. I was part of one of those groups for two decades.

So I see now... you call spirituality the act of "heads in books and engage in philosophical debates, instead of merely valuing themselves or their own experience." See, that's what I call religion: following Bible tenets and church teachings for example, instead of valuing one's intuitive self-wisdom.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Baile

Okay and that's my take as well. I was part of one of those groups for two decades.

So I see now... you call spirituality the act of "heads in books and engage in philosophical debates, instead of merely valuing themselves or their own experience." See, that's what I call religion: following Bible tenets and church teachings for example, instead of valuing one's intuitive self-wisdom.

I am glad that this understanding has been reached.

To be honest and fair, religion brings with it a set of traditions and in my experience of the Eastern religions (I know little to nothing about Christianity) many of the 'old ways' or hermetic traditions and teachings that have been passed down from generation to generation are slowly being phased out as spiritual adherents tend to take a more academic approach to almost tribal concepts and customs, with their original meaning and purpose lost somewhere in the translation.

It's not that I have anything against the 'new age', but it's the approach that is taken towards many tribal, shamanic customs that I have a hard time swallowing.

For just one example, we'll take Tantra...these days, it's all about sex, black magic and other things which people see as being what Tantra is all about, but the whole mystic, esoteric practice gets lost in the 'how to have great sex in 10 days...send me $100 and I'll teach you how'.

Now days, it's "I want to raise my kundalini...I want to do it as soon as possible...which chakras of mine are 'blocked'"?

Back in my day (I'm sounding old) if I even mentioned 'kundalini', my teacher would give me a stern look with 'we will not speak of this now...ask me again in another 10 years'.

People who do 'new age yoga' forget all the Yamas, Niyamas and such that Patanjali wrote about...what the actual foundations that have to be laid down first...it's all about 'give me money and I'll touch your forehead...bingo, it's done!'

So, this is the whole reason why I am 'against' the whole new-age spiritual movement. There's no foundation, no continuity of practice and they go on an aimless search from guru to guru, wanting to have everything NOW, as the modern societal catchcry resonates.

Yup, I just guess I'm getting old and I want to try and preserve all the old ways and all the esoteric teachings from material corruption...this is the whole 'agenda' I push.

[muffin]

Originally Posted by Baile

and now what meditative, self-realization work did you do today?

Point of all this: if you can't laugh about it all, you're taking it way too seriously.

Good afternoon Baile

Puts hand up. Got up when the alarm went off this morning. You don't need to be aware of the things in the background, for it still works it's own kind magic.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by muffin

Got up when the alarm went off this morning. You don't need to be aware of the things in the background, for it still works it's own kind magic.

Yes that is very true. However one first has to get to that understanding; that magic is happening. But just look at this forum: full of people who are unhappy and feel completely disconnected from life. Therefore the act of conscious recognition does in fact play into this process. It's not just a matter of auto-waking when the alarm rings.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by Baile

Yes that is very true. However one first has to get to that understanding; that magic is happening. But just look at this forum: full of people who are unhappy and feel completely disconnected from life. Therefore the act of conscious recognition does in fact play into this process. It's not just a matter of auto-waking when the alarm rings.

Hello,

I'm not unhappy!...and I feel totally connected to life.
What a funny thing to say!

Kind Regards Billy.