Zen, a practice without thinking??

Originally Posted by CSEe

In my current opinion , the "intention" of oneself to teach others or any action to influence others to agree is always resulted from a desire , emotions , ego or pride .....in Buddhism that will always be polluted energy in action .
Buddhism in my current understanding is a process to discover ownself by being awake leading to acceptance of ownself and emptiness.......is how much I know myself or how much you know yourself . Therefore since I will never know how much you know yourself compare to how much I know myself therefore is IMPOSSIBLE for me to teach you to understand yourself .....therefore Buddhism is IMPOSSIBLE to be taught but could only be learned .
In my current understanding one should accepted that he is of SAME and EQUAL with all beings regardless living or non-living that all action , re-action whether from himself or others is always a great source for him to discover his own self ..........so in Buddhism is always learning never involve any intention to teach .
All beings is teacher to me regardless whether human , animal , plant , virus , pen , dirt , rubbish etc and I will never be "teacher" to any one or anything.....
To me , no one nor Dalai Lama or Mr Siddharta himself could teach Buddhism , is always own realization to own self acceptance .
Thks
CSEe

Do you see my point (in the my post #47), i.e. that sharing information that we know to be true, in the hope that it will be helpful, is not the same thing as intentionally teaching? However, when someone is in a privileged position of advanced knowledge then this may put them in the role of teacher. This may mistakingly imply that others are disrespected, i.e. not equal. I don't get that impression at all here.

I acknowledge that trying to influence others to agree is a symptom of ego (and many of us are prone to do this here since it's inherent in the nature of having a discussion). However just trying to influence others can be well meaning, benevolent. If we weren't trying to influence others, i.e. have an effect, then why would anyone post here?

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Xan

Teaching happens... Doesn't mean I'm holding on to the idea of teacher.

Once again, it's only the clinging and resisting that are at issue, in hindering our evolving consciousness.


Xan

So in your 'teaching happens' post...............more teaching is happening. Holding on or not, it happens in every post more or less. What is it, if not you holding onto the idea of teacher?

It may seem like teaching when we try to solidify our knowledge by expressing it to others.
It can even seem to get a bit preachy.

Who do we believe? Who is right? When someone says they are awakened, do we believe?
I know of no one who has awakened to admit to it. And, only through their expressions and deeds ..
do we understand they have actualized the truth.

So, this is why we are on a forum. To share and talk of things.
Like spiritual growth ... hahaha.
For me, spiritual growth is measured in our capacity for compassion.
When we finally see our true nature and realize that you and you and me ..
Are all part of the same Buddha nature ... you are me ... how can I not love myself??
Still others see spiritual growth as being more knowledgeable and open to see the truth.
Who is right? Well, not me of course, I'm just a novice here.

[BlueSky]

I know of no one who has awakened to admit to it. And, only through their expressions and deeds ..
do we understand they have actualized the truth. avisitor

Nice..............

[CSEe]

[quote=amy green][color="Green"]Do you see my point (in the my post #47), i.e. that sharing information that we know to be true, in the hope that it will be helpful, is not the same thing as intentionally teaching? However, when someone is in a privileged position of advanced knowledge then this may put them in the role of teacher. This may mistakingly imply that others are disrespected, i.e. not equal. I don't get that impression at all here.
In knowledge or in human sociaty or human culture , yes we do have distinction of what is " right or wrong " , what is "true or false" and what is " good or bad".....that already in human acceptance / culture/knowledge but Buddhism is BEYOND all.........there is no right or wrong , no true or false and no good or bad as all action/re-action is part of own learning process to accept ownself .....so in Buddhism any knowledge should always be challenge for own progress into greater understanding not to be attached .....whether one have "intention" to teach or to share information or to challenge own knowledge .........no one will knows except ownself so is always you knows what is your intention ,,,,,,,,,
Yes in knowledge / human culture we accept human with knowledge as "teacher" even certify them as lawyers , doctors , engineer etc but in Buddhism knowledge is only one part per trillions .........there is no one in " privileged position" .....in Buddhism Obama is same and equal with Osama ,same equal as Dalai Lama ,same and equal as any flower in the garden or the pen on your table ......

I acknowledge that trying to influence others to agree is a symptom of ego (and many of us are prone to do this here since it's inherent in the nature of having a discussion). However just trying to influence others can be well meaning, benevolent. If we weren't trying to influence others, i.e. have an effect, then why would anyone post here?

I am here ONLY to challenge my understanding and learn from you all by discussion ......as part of my learning lesson to understand myself .
ThksCSEe

CSEe - you are applying Buddhist principles to posts that may or may not come from a Buddhist perspective...hence there will always be a discrepancy involved. It's not an appropriate means of understanding what the person means (unless they declare themselves to be a buddhist).

You seem to be confusing imparting Buddhist knowledge as being seen as teaching. Sharing knowledge/information is just that. (Teaching implies an unequal relationship between 2 people).

You say that you are here "only to challenge my understanding and learn from you all by discussion" so you are posting your knowledge on Buddhism in order just to gain feedback, i.e. to perhaps modify your understanding? This doesn't come across - rather your posts come across as cut and dried statements on Buddhism.

[CSEe]

[quote=amy green]CSEe - you are applying Buddhist principles to posts that may or may not come from a Buddhist perspective...hence there will always be a discrepancy involved. It's not an appropriate means of understanding what the person who posted means (unless they declare themselves to be a buddhist).
Who is " buddhist" ? What condition to be " Buddhist" ? What is'Buddhism perspective" ? in my current understanding , all beings is "buddhist" regardless living or non-living .......and there is no perspective of Buddhism except own self ........in thousand of years human had decorated Buddhism into so many traditions , so many understandings / teaching of monks etc ......but in my current understanding Buddhism is a natural process of all beings towards emptiness , no one and nothing is referal to Buddhism.......

You say that you are here "only to challenge my understanding and learn from you all by discussion" but in your posts you clearly want to let us all know about Buddhism. Do you see this?
I don't mind at all but it's apparent (from your posts) that you are not here just for your understanding and learning - i.e. you also impart Buddhist knowledge.

[Perhaps that is your perception ........your understanding resulted from your self but I am fully aware my intention here . You see amy green , Buddhism is never about others except for own self , when I explain to you the fact is I am learning .........I am challenging myself , forcing myself to explore in order to reply your question ..........you are actually my factor for my exploration , you are factor for me to understand my own self ......thats Buddhism .
/QUOTE]

[CSEe]

Perhaps I should further explain , during my discussion with you guys , yes indeed it may sound like I am trying to explain my understanding or influence you...but the fact is that in Buddhism is all about own will , own journey in own world . Is how you accept it , is all up to you .
Just like if you look at the moon , the moon could be near as you could see it or the moon could be far as you cant touch it ........in Buddhism whether the moon is far or near to you should never concern you ......but the existance of the moon is providing you a source to understand your desire , emotion ...such as why you have desire to understand the moon or why must you to have interest to understand the moon ........Buddhism is a process you know your desire , emotion never involve in others existance .
So when I discuss with you guys about my understanding of Buddhism , my understanding is I learn from it , learn by exploring my self to explain to you , learn about your question , forcing my deeper awareness to know greater realization of your question ..........so is never to teach you but always for my own learning process .
I hope you guys understand it.
Thks
CSEe

CSEe - That you regard all beings as buddhist may offend some people here and will tend to result in being misinterpreted and misunderstood since it seems apparent that are not interested in understanding members from their own point of view.

What you say about Buddhism is not news to me because I used to practice Mahayana Buddhism - for quite some time - e.g. I am familiar with diminishing the ego and of the problem with desires.

So it seems (from your last paragraph above) that you are posting about Buddhism only to further your own knowledge rather than to share/impart your experiences. Are you just wanting feedback then as to whether or not your understanding of Buddhism is correct? I ask because the way you post about Buddhism comes across as statements and not in the form of points that need clarification.

[Xan]

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

So in your 'teaching happens' post...............more teaching is happening. Holding on or not, it happens in every post more or less. What is it, if not you holding onto the idea of teacher?

Like I said, James... its just what happens. I no longer hold on to an identity like that, no matter how it may appear to you.


Xan