Do plants feel pain?

Originally Posted by Paci Bera

I, for one, am convinced that plants concerning trees till "simple" plants such as all kinds of grass are LIVING.
They are living as we humanbeings are. If you for instance tear out a tuft of grass it does feel ache and therefore suffers. Same if you cut down a tree.

Naturally a plant won't cry out and yell with pain, because it is simply not able to.

I hope I have answered in a for you appropriate way. THat is my opinion.:)

Hi Paci,
I guess you have not read the article..No doubt all plants are living beings but they are not conscious as we humanbeings are...If you read the article, then you will understand that grass does feel not ache nor does it suffers at least scientifically...Personally, you can think in a way you wanna think...

I get upset when someone cuts down a tree, especially when there is no good reason to cut it down.
When I was a kid or teen I used to feel uneasy when someone was mowing the grass. I still don't like it. I have never understood the point of mowing grass.

In the absence of brain and nervous system and as per the definition of pain stated above, plants do not feel pain or sufferings.

I disagree with this because I don't think pain can be reduced to presense/absense of a specific organ (the brain/nervous system in your example).
I would consider that pain can be felt/experienced/noticed on some level without being localised or isolated to a particular thing.

Originally Posted by dreamt

I get upset when someone cuts down a tree, especially when there is no good reason to cut it down.
When I was a kid or teen I used to feel uneasy when someone was mowing the grass. I still don't like it. I have never understood the point of mowing grass.

I disagree with this because I don't think pain can be reduced to presense/absense of a specific organ (the brain/nervous system in your example).
I would consider that pain can be felt/experienced/noticed on some level without being localised or isolated to a particular thing.

i had the exact same thoughts about the grass being mowed when i was a little kid.

i do think that plants feel pain, even if science is not smart enough to figure it out yet.

Originally Posted by dreamt

I get upset when someone cuts down a tree, especially when there is no good reason to cut it down.
When I was a kid or teen I used to feel uneasy when someone was mowing the grass. I still don't like it. I have never understood the point of mowing grass.

I disagree with this because I don't think pain can be reduced to presense/absense of a specific organ (the brain/nervous system in your example).
I would consider that pain can be felt/experienced/noticed on some level without being localised or isolated to a particular thing.

Well,I stated many other facts...Without brain, our body is of no use..Think about what happens when a patient is in coma....So, the absence or non functioning of any organ matters a lot specially brain, the most vital organ...Our perception, consciousness, senses(touch,smell,taste, vision, hear) everything is because of brain...You are entitled to think in your own way but you should ponder deeply before coming to a conclusion..

hey sarinmall,I read the article and I reckon they are aware of ache period,,certainly not scientifically.

You may disagree and I may hate criticism but I believe in it.

(quoting again from the article)

Also, not all plants react. I have two parrots that I keep regularly near tulsi plant. Every day, these clever parrots move their beak outside the cage to eat the leaves of tulsi plants. I never saw the sacred tulsi plants taking some defensive action. On the contrary, new leaves grow up every day so that my parrots can eat it the next day. I guess plants are happy to share their fruits/ leaves to all other living beings. Plants are generous living beings while non-vegetarians are stupid living beings, unable to understand their generosity.

I think you're making a leap from the parrot/plant interaction to then thinking that the same must apply to all instances of animal/plant interaction.

The article contains some interesting facts and observations - I learned some new things
The argument though - which I think is what you wanted feedback on - seems to be based only on physical pain, leaving out the mind/soul which kind of limits the discussion (in my opinion).

I don't defend non-vegetarianism by the way. I saw the title of the thread and was drawn to it. It was only later I noticed which forum it was in.

Originally Posted by dreamt

(quoting again from the article)
I think you're making a leap from the parrot/plant interaction to then thinking that the same must apply to all instances of animal/plant interaction.

The article contains some interesting facts and observations - I learned some new things
The argument though - which I think is what you wanted feedback on - seems to be based only on physical pain, leaving out the mind/soul which kind of limits the discussion (in my opinion).

I don't defend non-vegetarianism by the way. I saw the title of the thread and was drawn to it. It was only later I noticed which forum it was in.

Parrot/Plant was just my observation/example. I was not deriving any fact or conclusions from it nor does this observation proves anything. Like i said before, take article on a whole and not on couple of sentences which i also feel was not up-to the point...Pain is physical only, mental or internal pain is not possible since they don't have brain or any such pain system..Plants are conscious but have no soul or mind..I will come up with an article on this..

Personal quote:
When i wrote this article then i knew it very well that i will face stiff criticism because more than 98% of the world population outside India is non-vegeterains..Number of vegeterains in India is six times more than rest of the world vegans population and this may be the reason why none of the Indians opposed my views(though I see there is nothing to oppose).. But i am glad that i made a point and defended my points quite well..

There are 2 gross misconceptions that are reiterated again and again in this realm of questioning.

1 - "Humans are naturally herbavorious" is misappropriation of the facts. Yes we are "natural" plant eaters to a point, but we are also natural carnivors, and also natural insectavors, as well as fungus. We are naturally "opurtunistic omnivores. That means we tend to adapt to what our environment gives us. No where in the humans diet in all of history were we (as a species) strict carnivore or strict herbavore and we do not to too well (generally speaking) only eating one for the long term isnt the best for us - we do much better eating a vast array of foods.


2 - "Plants dont feel pain"/"plants are simple organisms"

This is a very bad assumption. Yes, plants dont feel "pain" because pain requires a nervous system as we know it. This does not mean plants cannot "feel" (in their own sense), or react to their environment, or stimuli, or act in self defence.

All life in water or land, came from plants (algea). Plants, that is organisms that use photosynthesis for food and energy, have been around for at least 3 billion years in one form or another. Sure, animals are classified and for all intensive purposes more "complex" (As in more atoms/cells), but we dont understand enough about plants to dismiss this totally.

Plants produce fruit to entice animals to eat and spread their seeds. They release pharamones when attacked. They send messages hundreds of miles through networks of fungal nets and tree roots connected underground. They "choose" their sites where they grow (the seeds usually will only sprout in favorable conditions). They get sick, they MOVE, they react to stimuli, and reproduce.

The only reason we dont think any more of plants, is because they cant talk to us, or dont have faces. Plants even communicate with each other. They can attract certain species of insects to defend the plants as well. Just because we dont fully understand plants, or how they really work, does not mean they dont "Feel" pain, or are aware of it.

The real problem is we try to associate the with animals, or even worse, US. Plants are not animals, and they are a completely different evolutionary path. To compare them, isnt even apples and oranges, its more like saying a rock is the exact same thing as our sun, but calling the rock dumb because it doesnt heat us.

[Podshell]

Don't know if this guy has been mentioned on here yet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagadish_Chandra_Bose

from link....His major contribution in the field of biophysics was the demonstration of the electrical nature of the conduction of various stimuli (e.g., wounds, chemical agents) in plants, which were earlier thought to be of a chemical nature. These claims were later proven experimentally.[23] He was also the first to study the action of microwaves in plant tissues and corresponding changes in the cell membrane potential. He researched the mechanism of the seasonal effect on plants, the effect of chemical inhibitors on plant stimuli, the effect of temperature, etc. From the analysis of the variation of the cell membrane potential of plants under different circumstances, he hypothesised that plants can "feel pain, understand affection etc.
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Some plant parts are produced by the plant to be eaten though (eg Apples), so I suppose they may feel joy if picked , knowing their seeds will be dispersed.

If you scroll down to the third heading here (if the link has worked correctly, some more info)

http://iskconbirmingham.org/whats-wr...ng-meat#Plants and Vegetables are also living being is it not a sin to kill them for food too?

In The Higher Taste cook book Srila Prabhupada also says that animals have a higher developed nervous system so feel more pain than plants

[Miss Hepburn]

Again I tell this story a lot...the NDE of the 11 yr old boy...while being in
his Life Review...he not only saw but felt what the tree felt...as he passed by
it in Seneca Park, NY and thought, "What a beautiful tree!".