Pain and Meditation

[Tirisilex]

OK.. I've seen 2 amazing things from meditation. The first is from the Vietnam War. Some monk in protest of the war burned himself alive. Fire is like the worst kind of pain and he sat there without flinching, screaming, or moving. Totaly blocked out the pain. I also sawa video of a Buddhist Monk having Brain Surgery without any anethesia.. He just laid there talking to the Doctors.
So.. My Question is.. Are they Blocking the pain so they dont feel it? Or are they feeling the pain but learned not to react to it?

[Jyotir]

Hi Tirisilex,

They are not blocking the pain.
They are not feeling the pain.

What they have done is to withdraw their focus of attention to another aspect of reality - e.g., out of the of the physical senses.

It's the same thing as when someone is very busy and intensely concentrating on one thing, they may not hear someone talking to them.

But in the example of the monk, it is a consistently sustained and perfect concentration - otherwise, they would be writhing in pain. They simply withdrew their conscious focus of attention. But importantly, in that particular case, while that was happening, their body was also being destroyed so there was then no vehicle to 'return' to.

You can 'go to' the same 'place' the monk did by practicing meditation - only hopefully, you'll be able to return to a healthy functioning physical body.


~ J

[Ground]

Originally Posted by Tirisilex

So.. My Question is.. Are they Blocking the pain so they dont feel it? Or are they feeling the pain but learned not to react to it?

What about you? Are you feeling pain or are you blocking it or have you learned not to react to it?

[Gem]

I don't know about the monk in question, but to me It has to do with the Buddhist concept of equanimity, which is 'not reacting to it'. There is a practice of meditation which makes the mind highly perceptive so that the grosser sensations we are commonly familiar with can be felt to be made up of a collage of millions of subtle sensations that are transforming very very quickly. If the mind isn't sensitive enough to feel this underlying subtlety, a sort of grosser blur is experienced as enduring sensation. When the mind is very sharp the sensation is so detailed, and transforming so rapidly, that no part of the overall sensation has any lasting duration to it. This means the sensation is there, and is actually felt far more acutely, but it isn't being endured.

I don't really understand how setting themselves alight is supposed to make anything better, and such action to me seems terribly misguided.

[Tirisilex]

Originally Posted by Gem

I don't really understand how setting themselves alight is supposed to make anything better, and such action to me seems terribly misguided.

Agreed.. I've been watching videos on you tube and its still common practice in South East Asia. It's horrible.. I was cringing when I saw these videos.

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by Gem

I don't know about the monk in question, but to me It has to do with the Buddhist concept of equanimity, which is 'not reacting to it'. There is a practice of meditation which makes the mind highly perceptive so that the grosser sensations we are commonly familiar with can be felt to be made up of a collage of millions of subtle sensations that are transforming very very quickly. If the mind isn't sensitive enough to feel this underlying subtlety, a sort of grosser blur is experienced as enduring sensation. When the mind is very sharp the sensation is so detailed, and transforming so rapidly, that no part of the overall sensation has any lasting duration to it. This means the sensation is there, and is actually felt far more acutely, but it isn't being endured.

I don't really understand how setting themselves alight is supposed to make anything better, and such action to me seems terribly misguided.

Yeah, it confuses me a tad too... it sure is a powerful to statement to make, I'll say that much. It's a hell of a sacrifice to make, to take your own life in that way, and actually it seems to me to be a very selfless act - I think it's a form of protest, the intention of which is to shock humanity and awaken it to its own insanity, and these people could take the terrorist root, say, and kill and maim others, but instead they take their own lives.

That's my perspective on it, anyway, I could easily be wrong of course.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by A human Being

Yeah, it confuses me a tad too... it sure is a powerful to statement to make, I'll say that much. It's a hell of a sacrifice to make, to take your own life in that way, and actually it seems to me to be a very selfless act - I think it's a form of protest, the intention of which is to shock humanity and awaken it to its own insanity, and these people could take the terrorist root, say, and kill and maim others, but instead they take their own lives.

That's my perspective on it, anyway, I could easily be wrong of course.

Seems a tad melodramatic to say the least.

[shiningstars]

Originally Posted by Gem

Seems a tad melodramatic to say the least.

No compassion for their plight, or why they feel the need to do this? I think that's sad.

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by Gem

Seems a tad melodramatic to say the least.

I guess it reflects their strength of feeling about whatever it is they're protesting. And if you're a deeply empathic and compassionate person, I suppose you are going to have strong feelings about war, say - I mean it's people systematically killing and maiming each other, it's a profoundly sad state of affairs.

[mulyo13]

Originally Posted by Tirisilex

OK.. I've seen 2 amazing things from meditation. The first is from the Vietnam War. Some monk in protest of the war burned himself alive. Fire is like the worst kind of pain and he sat there without flinching, screaming, or moving. Totaly blocked out the pain. I also sawa video of a Buddhist Monk having Brain Surgery without any anethesia.. He just laid there talking to the Doctors.

As far as I know, there's 2 version of it. The monk is sacrifice for protesting and the other one is, the monk was burned by......
I don't know which one is the truth,.. but it's another topic.

And as far as I know, it's not a Buddhist Monk who having brain surgery without anesthesia.

Originally Posted by Tirisilex

So.. My Question is.. Are they Blocking the pain so they dont feel it?

Does blocking a thought is same like blocking the pain?

In vipassana, when you sit for long time period, you will facing the pain(pain from your legs, ankle, back bone, neck,.... etc). The only way to 'let go' the pain is by facing the pain, knowing the pain and accept the pain. Blocking/ignore/'buried' the pain is different with let go the pain.

Originally Posted by Tirisilex

Or are they feeling the pain but learned not to react to it?

Does aware your mind/thoughts or observe your mind/thoughts is same with not to react to your mind/thoughts?
Or it is a causality so you become not react to it(your mind/thoughts)?
Or it's different?
Whether the answer is yes or no, it will grow/arise another question, for example, Does the 'I' factor related with it?
And it will grow/arise another question again and again, to know what is the root that makes you to not react to it.





I don't know if they feel the pain or not, when they being burned or surgery. You have to ask to the person to find the truth.