Can someone remove another person's karma?

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I agree but of the people posting in this section..

You, running and myself are the only ones that believe that.. Oh Miss Hepburn as well.

I have had many discussions with members about transmission.. which they think is fake, energy.. which is not the way I say it is.. just emotions to most people.. and guru's.. which most don't believe can do anything for you.. Is just someone with an ego trying to tell you how to do things..

These are old discussions.. I only came around because you are new and I thought it would be interesting :)

I am always more than willing to share my experience :)

Some people don't have to define or label what is occurring and label it Jonesboy. I am more an observer of what is being and moving in the shared space more conscious that I have no need to label this naturally occurring movment of life.

The attachment issues that can come into play in the labelling and "this is what is happening" "this is called this" can actually hinder what can move within all that without "you" making it be this labelled idea.

So when you start pointing to believers and non believers in the way that your doing in this post, I just wanted to share that some of us don't have to label and point to be aware and self reflective, aware of themselves and others in shared spaces.


Some people don't hold beliefs to be aware and fully present.

The nature of such matters is not a contained idea, the fullness of flowing and being is a moving open way of being, open and not making things be. When it is decided by the mind what is creating and moving all this, there is an immediate idea that it is only moving through certain "guru's", where the transmission is one of something brighter, wiser, greater, where as all life is interacting in such manner, the point your noticing is just another point of focus. Where as all life moves in this shared space and so our personal responsibility in self awareness understands this from a greater perspective of living and being the true open self with all life.


"gather the believers" and watch the movements and what it means.

"gather the non believers" and watch your own movements and now see what it means.

Yes it shows in threads like this. Of all places a Buddhist thread, where people are focused on trying to make something be. Seems rather non Buddhist in how I view Buddhism in myself as my source of reflection and self awareness, but then I tend to make it my way of being.

[jonesboy]

Hi naturesflow,

It seems I must have touched a nerve.

Originally Posted by naturesflow

Some people don't have to define or label what is occurring and label it Jonesboy. I am more an observer of what is being and moving in the shared space more conscious that I have no need to label this naturally occurring movment of life.

The attachment issues that can come into play in the labelling and "this is what is happening" "this is called this" can actually hinder what can move within all that without "you" making it be this labelled idea.

Most people do learn.

If you are serious about your path don't you want to learn what you are doing? Where it is leading? How to progress farther and what may come next?

It is not about "labeling" but more about understanding what you are experiencing. Many things one experiences can be scary and confusing so it is good to know what it is you are doing.

I would agree it is wrong to attach to an experience or to desire an experience.

So when you start pointing to believers and non believers in the way that your doing in this post, I just wanted to share that some of us don't have to label and point to be aware and self reflective, aware of themselves and others in shared spaces.

What you are describing is not what I am describing. Should I share some of the links as a reference to people making fun of transmission and energy or saying Tibetan Buddhism isn't Buddhist?

Also, I am not sure what you are describing as self reflective and aware of themselves. Can you also expand on what you mean by shared spaces?

Some people don't hold beliefs to be aware and fully present.

People who do follow traditions such as Buddhism, Hinduism and Taoism do. It's kinda like saying when the Buddha was teaching he wasn't present.

The nature of such matters is not a contained idea, the fullness of flowing and being is a moving open way of being, open and not making things be. When it is decided by the mind what is creating and moving all this, there is an immediate idea that it is only moving through certain "guru's", where the transmission is one of something brighter, wiser, greater, where as all life is interacting in such manner, the point your noticing is just another point of focus. Where as all life moves in this shared space and so our personal responsibility in self awareness understands this from a greater perspective of living and being the true open self with all life.

Interesting concept.

Nobody has said anything is brighter, wiser, greater and moving only through certain gurus. I have only said a guru can really, really help

Also, what is your understanding of things moving and flowing through the true open self?

"gather the believers" and watch the movements and what it means.

"gather the non believers" and watch your own movements and now see what it means.

It means the same.

Notice more how what i said and how it makes you feel. There you will find your own obstructions.

All I said is you have a lot of people in the Buddhist forum who don't believe and when they find something that goes against there beliefs ... Well should we look in the Dzogchen thread where people found out it was tantric and then started saying it wasn't Buddhist? :)

Yes it shows in threads like this. Of all places a Buddhist thread, where people are focused on trying to make something be. Seems rather non Buddhist in how I view Buddhism in myself as my source of reflection and self awareness, but then I tend to make it my way of being.

Not sure what you are saying here.

There are accepted beliefs in Buddhism just like there are accepted beliefs and concepts in Kashmir Shaivism. It is what sets traditions apart.

[shiningstars]

Originally Posted by running

i have a different out look on many things i have heard gurus say. doesnt make them right or me wrong. but whats right for me is right for me. whats right for them is right for them. its not a problem cause they know that. so you can disagree and the energy doesnt care but lifts anyway.

what is the same for all is in bliss and silence. so you can mix with all sorts of gurus and all is good. that is what its all about anyways from what i have seen.

and let me make clear. i am not a buddhist anyway but sharing from my perspective and from my constitution. which i have just as much right to speak from as the Buddha does or anyone else for that matter.

You do it your way. That's obvious and nothing wrong with that.

shiningstars

[shiningstars]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

and guru's.. which most don't believe can do anything for you.. Is just someone with an ego trying to tell you how to do things..

These are old discussions.. I only came around because you are new and I thought it would be interesting :)

I am always more than willing to share my experience :)

It's OK - I am the converted.

shiningstars

[django]

Originally Posted by running

bliss and silence is the end to suffering. suffering can go on but in bliss. cause and effect is an endless ups and downs. cause and effects can go on in bliss. and that bliss is what has an effect on everything. helping to energetically show the way. to give joy. heal wounds. make for forgiveness. its oneness so it like a good flu can and does works its way through everyrhing. cleansing the mind, spirit, clearing obstructions(inner conflict.)

Bliss is synonymous with kundalini

Bliss is referred to in the phrase Sat Chit Ananda "truth, consciousness, bliss", the description for the subjective experience of the ultimate, unchanging reality in Hinduism called Brahman

Bliss is the fifth kosha or sheath covering the Atman, or Self according to Vedantic philosophy which must be seen through and disidentified with

There is the "Unconditioned" bliss in the Buddhist Nibbāna

It is most unlikely that all these uses of the word 'bliss' actually indicate the same state or attainment, my feeling is they are not equivalent, and I think conflating them leads to confusion.

[django]

So what I understand from this thread is that though people can help each other in various ways, removing karma is not one of these ways.

[django]

Originally Posted by shiningstars

It's OK - I am the converted.

shiningstars

Converted to what?

[Jeremy Bong]

I think both of you're out of the topic of "karma effect". You better express you viewpoint about the thread topic or related topics so that the ones who want to discuss about karma is able to continue , of course you have talking of this bliss and silence for a few months already . So it's up to them to decide what to do or how they think?

My discovering on this method is implicated with the God who came to me two days ago. And formerly, I knew that there's bad Gods behind it to control by sending dark energy to cheat the one who's trying to learn this practice. And it's up to you or others to decide what should you and others to go on. That's the one who taught you is one of the group of Gods to cheat the learners. It's because I was affected by the long small three layers box and inside is dark energy. And it steals the learner's energy.

Just now he himself admits that he has done what I've said. So nothing is easy as 1+1=2 not that simple.

[naturesflow]

[quote]

Not at all, so what nerve are you feeling in you to share this? And that is the truth of my sharing that was simply noticing open and sharing what I wanted to share.
Most people do learn.

If you are serious about your path don't you want to learn what you are doing? Where it is leading? How to progress farther and what may come next?

I learn naturally through the nature of my own source within me constantly reflecting and aware in all life and what it shows..I don't need to know where it goes or leads, it just moves as it is and I move as I notice myself and the shared space... Where are you progressing too that you see progression as you require it? You must see that your heading to something more that you seek to attain in yourself? Don't you see yourself as enough if open and reflecting on what is there, I am participating in life and life progresses and I move and notice open to what is, I don't need to chase after the doing or need to seek to progress. I am the doing and movement as I am one with life as it is. Its all there in that shared space ongoing in the experience of life itself. When I am engaged its all there to notice naturally in everyway of all your seeking to make happen. Perhaps the difference between us is that you don't see yourself complete yet? I am speaking of completeness within. That is the source in feeling in me that feels complete, the movements from that point in me doesn't need to strive or chase after things to complete me. I am more aware I move now with this deeper connection most naturally. I don't need to find a source to make that happen. I am that source and connection. How can I not be?

It is not about "labeling" but more about understanding what you are experiencing. Many things one experiences can be scary and confusing so it is good to know what it is you are doing.

I meant when you label things as believers and non believers you immediately separate out what is most naturally the interactions of your own presence into life itself in everyway you are being and sharing of you...We each are interacting on every level every day of our lives. It is the nature of interconnectedness of all life. It occurs and melds together in everyway of every interaction. So when you walk down the street and you are there as you are or walk into a set up room that you have specially designed for this with others for reason, in my opinion of being all this, you simply take care of yourself and hold your own presence aware. If your fully aware of yourself in the nature of what is moving and shifting, opening in that interaction, does that make it something special to have to know? If you are aware of yourself to the nature of what is moving in a more complete awareness, wouldn't you be aware to let the space just be what it will be? And in my view anything is possible in that space, not one way or one thing. Its just noticed and responded to as it will be...If your open to it not attaching to the whole outcome, process and natural movements, would you be aware its just how life is naturally? If you have addressed your own scary and confusing feelings would you naturally discern and know without separating out any aspect of this most naturally? If your truly not attached to this and noticing more open and aware, it doesn't need to be anything other than an interaction aware of more than itself. OPen and aware of the whole space. Its simple if you build this in you first.

I would agree it is wrong to attach to an experience or to desire an experience.

What you are describing is not what I am describing. Should I share some of the links as a reference to people making fun of transmission and energy or saying Tibetan Buddhism isn't Buddhist?

But if your aware of yourself as you know yourself what is their to prove?

You are proving and showing something that is not something that requires talking about in this way as I see it. Its you being it and if you are modelling this as the thing your involved in, why does it always lead you back to proving it and seeking out people that you deem as being ready for this, or as being true? AS a model of all this, wouldn't you just be this everywhere you are? There is no seeking or have to make this be? It is a natural unfolding that I only have to build as my own source or model and live this life. The interactions come as they will in your engagement with life.

Also, I am not sure what you are describing as self reflective and aware of themselves. Can you also expand on what you mean by shared spaces?

Well take yourself back to the first time you witnessed this transference/transmission shared space? What opened in you to notice and make this be something since that time? Why is it replaying over and over, where are you in the becoming of this? If you are moving into becoming what is moving around you in shared spaces, wouldn't you naturally become the whole shared space you attaching too in knowing this can happen. Why are you constantly making claim to this and not being it naturally without claim?Wouldn't you be aware of the natural expression of this as yourself being this more complete in you?

People who do follow traditions such as Buddhism, Hinduism and Taoism do. It's kinda like saying when the Buddha was teaching he wasn't present.

Interesting concept.

Nobody has said anything is brighter, wiser, greater and moving only through certain gurus. I have only said a guru can really, really help

If you are aware that all life interacts in everyway everywhere, there wouldn't be a need to notice certain gurus in all that would there? Doesn't that lead you to only be noticing that only certain gurus do this? Where as, all life is interacting and moving aware and unaware all the time? Its not something special, its how life interacts, guru or homeless man laying on the street? This is my point...If you want to make this an isolated guru only space, then aren't you missing the nature of how life is moving most naturally all the time in this way of opening others? So for me in this awareness, its the way life is in me and outside of me naturally?

Also, what is your understanding of things moving and flowing through the true open self?

Well if you are feeling complete, are you not flowing and moving naturally as you are? So it makes sense to become what you seek or know can be through all this practice you make as being only about certain people and groups?



It means the same.

[quote][quote]

Notice more how what i said and how it makes you feel. There you will find your own obstructions.

I have no feelings involved in this. I am just aware that in my noticing of you replaying this over and over, it seems to me your stuck there because it comes up time and time again as a point to be made over and over again to prove in some way to others. So the observation and noticing self says.. "why the heck is he at this space again" ? And of course in reflection of that noticing, I am here too noticing myself noticing you at it again. So it will be my last time noticing this and I will move on and live my life beyond this point and just live as I am, aware I am complete and don't need completion from others, more open to grow in ways that expands into what can be of that completeness, not make me complete. Its seems more sensible to me to just move and let myself immerse and open to what is more naturally now. I guess we differ in that I let life show me and move naturally, you perhaps chase or seek things to know where you are headed and moving to, attaining to something etc etc. I guess that those differences are because your seeking something more than completeness perhaps?

All I said is you have a lot of people in the Buddhist forum who don't believe and when they find something that goes against there beliefs ... Well should we look in the Dzogchen thread where people found out it was tantric and then started saying it wasn't Buddhist? :)

Why are you constantly proving and meeting those in this way? And yes I am and speaking to myself in that projection as well, so again I wont be speaking to you anymore in this way in my noticing.

When you live this stuff the beliefs if your getting it more fully, you would have dropped them by now and being them as you aware.
[quote]Not sure what you are saying here.[/QUOT

There are accepted beliefs in Buddhism just like there are accepted beliefs and concepts in Kashmir Shaivism. It is what sets traditions apart.

Sure I get this.

[naturesflow]

[quote]

Not at all, so what nerve are you feeling in you to share this? And that is the truth of my sharing that was simply noticing open and sharing what I wanted to share.
Most people do learn.

If you are serious about your path don't you want to learn what you are doing? Where it is leading? How to progress farther and what may come next?

I learn naturally through the nature of my own source within me constantly reflecting and aware in all life and what it shows..I don't need to know where it goes or leads, it just moves as it is and I move as I notice myself and the shared space... Where are you progressing too that you see progression as you require it? You must see that your heading to something more that you seek to attain in yourself? Don't you see yourself as enough if open and reflecting on what is there, I am participating in life and life progresses and I move and notice open to what is, I don't need to chase after the doing or need to seek to progress. I am the doing and movement as I am one with life as it is. Its all there in that shared space ongoing in the experience of life itself. When I am engaged its all there to notice naturally in everyway of all your seeking to make happen. Perhaps the difference between us is that you don't see yourself complete yet? I am speaking of completeness within. That is the source in feeling in me that feels complete, the movements from that point in me doesn't need to strive or chase after things to complete me. I am more aware I move now with this deeper connection most naturally. I don't need to find a source to make that happen. I am that source and connection. How can I not be?

It is not about "labeling" but more about understanding what you are experiencing. Many things one experiences can be scary and confusing so it is good to know what it is you are doing.

I meant when you label things as believers and non believers you immediately separate out what is most naturally the interactions of your own presence into life itself in everyway you are being and sharing of you...We each are interacting on every level every day of our lives. It is the nature of interconnectedness of all life. It occurs and melds together in everyway of every interaction. So when you walk down the street and you are there as you are or walk into a set up room that you have specially designed for this with others for reason, in my opinion of being all this, you simply take care of yourself and hold your own presence aware. If your fully aware of yourself in the nature of what is moving and shifting, opening in that interaction, does that make it something special to have to know? If you are aware of yourself to the nature of what is moving in a more complete awareness, wouldn't you be aware to let the space just be what it will be? And in my view anything is possible in that space, not one way or one thing. Its just noticed and responded to as it will be...If your open to it not attaching to the whole outcome, process and natural movements, would you be aware its just how life is naturally? If you have addressed your own scary and confusing feelings would you naturally discern and know without separating out any aspect of this most naturally? If your truly not attached to this and noticing more open and aware, it doesn't need to be anything other than an interaction aware of more than itself. OPen and aware of the whole space. Its simple if you build this in you first.

I would agree it is wrong to attach to an experience or to desire an experience.

What you are describing is not what I am describing. Should I share some of the links as a reference to people making fun of transmission and energy or saying Tibetan Buddhism isn't Buddhist?

But if your aware of yourself as you know yourself what is their to prove?

You are proving and showing something that is not something that requires talking about in this way as I see it. Its you being it and if you are modelling this as the thing your involved in, why does it always lead you back to proving it and seeking out people that you deem as being ready for this, or as being true? AS a model of all this, wouldn't you just be this everywhere you are? There is no seeking or have to make this be? It is a natural unfolding that I only have to build as my own source or model and live this life. The interactions come as they will in your engagement with life.

Also, I am not sure what you are describing as self reflective and aware of themselves. Can you also expand on what you mean by shared spaces?

Well take yourself back to the first time you witnessed this transference/transmission shared space? What opened in you to notice and make this be something since that time? Why is it replaying over and over, where are you in the becoming of this? If you are moving into becoming what is moving around you in shared spaces, wouldn't you naturally become the whole shared space you attaching too in knowing this can happen. Why are you constantly making claim to this and not being it naturally without claim?Wouldn't you be aware of the natural expression of this as yourself being this more complete in you?

People who do follow traditions such as Buddhism, Hinduism and Taoism do. It's kinda like saying when the Buddha was teaching he wasn't present.

Interesting concept.

Nobody has said anything is brighter, wiser, greater and moving only through certain gurus. I have only said a guru can really, really help

If you are aware that all life interacts in everyway everywhere, there wouldn't be a need to notice certain gurus in all that would there? Doesn't that lead you to only be noticing that only certain gurus do this? Where as, all life is interacting and moving aware and unaware all the time? Its not something special, its how life interacts, guru or homeless man laying on the street? This is my point...If you want to make this an isolated guru only space, then aren't you missing the nature of how life is moving most naturally all the time in this way of opening others? So for me in this awareness, its the way life is in me and outside of me naturally?

Also, what is your understanding of things moving and flowing through the true open self?

Well if you are feeling complete, are you not flowing and moving naturally as you are? So it makes sense to become what you seek or know can be through all this practice you make as being only about certain people and groups?



It means the same.

[quote][quote]

Notice more how what i said and how it makes you feel. There you will find your own obstructions.

I have no feelings involved in this. I am just aware that in my noticing of you replaying this over and over, it seems to me your stuck there because it comes up time and time again as a point to be made over and over again to prove in some way to others. So the observation and noticing self says.. "why the heck is he at this space again" ? And of course in reflection of that noticing, I am here too noticing myself noticing you at it again. So it will be my last time noticing this and I will move on and live my life beyond this point and just live as I am, aware I am complete and don't need completion from others, more open to grow in ways that expands into what can be of that completeness, not make me complete. Its seems more sensible to me to just move and let myself immerse and open to what is more naturally now. I guess we differ in that I let life show me and move naturally, you perhaps chase or seek things to know where you are headed and moving to, attaining to something etc etc. I guess that those differences are because your seeking something more than completeness perhaps?

All I said is you have a lot of people in the Buddhist forum who don't believe and when they find something that goes against there beliefs ... Well should we look in the Dzogchen thread where people found out it was tantric and then started saying it wasn't Buddhist? :)

Why are you constantly proving and meeting those in this way? And yes I am and speaking to myself in that projection as well, so again I wont be speaking to you anymore in this way in my noticing.

When you live this stuff the beliefs if your getting it more fully, you would have dropped them by now and being them as you aware.
[quote]Not sure what you are saying here.[/QUOT

There are accepted beliefs in Buddhism just like there are accepted beliefs and concepts in Kashmir Shaivism. It is what sets traditions apart.

Sure I get this.