Can anyone tell me why ?

[CSEe]

Hi Mind's Eye , you said "Why debate, why not just discuss? If you are looking to learn, that means you lack a certain knowledge of the path you seek to follow... so how can you debate what you are not fully educated about? You will only succeed in throwing up verbal road blocks in front of the one who is trying to enter into a discussion with you... and naturally, they will probably get a bit annoyed and avoid you in the future." Unquote...

Perhaps debate will prepare the teacher that I will challenge not only their view but also mine .........dear Mind's Eye , perhaps Buddhism is beyond knowledge , is not something we know or something we wish to know or something we will know ......is perhaps realization on own self , own emotions so by debating with others , I will explore and learn more .

You said " So you might try having a conversation with someone and asking honest questions rather than labeling it a debate; most masters will not enter into a debate with a pupil. And really, a debate is to enter into a more heated discussion by two people with opposing views; not when someone is seeking to learn. What are your intentions with debating? To try and prove to a Buddhist Master that he is wrong and you posses more knowledge then he or she?
The word, "debate" doesn't seem to make much sense here.Un-quote
Perhaps in Buddhism there is no right or wrong , no true or false , no good or bad so how could anyone is wrong in Buddhism ? Right or wrong , true or false , good or bad is only exist in human knowledge .........but Buddhism to me currently is beyond knowledge ..........

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by tttin

Hi CSEe,

Could you give me your idea why there is a person was born in rich family and was healthy, and there is a person was born in poor family and was sickness?

With my current experience of Buddhism (not master), I think we can discuss and learn together although I am not good in English :)

In my current understanding ,Buddhism is not an answering machine to fulfill our desire to know , perhaps you should explore your desire to know rather then to find the answer to fulfill your desire to know ...........
To my current understanding in Buddhism there is no rich or poor , no sick or healthy as all condition is in a process , a condition that one in during own process into emptiness back into nothingness and this process is known to me as Buddhism.....

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by maejin

The Buddha said that such variations in human beings are due to karma from their past lives. For example those that were generous in previous lives are reborn to wealth, those that were violent are reborn to weakness.

What about you ? What is your say ?.....I wish to learn from you.......

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by Mind's Eye

I can agree with that, but many people from many cultures do not debate successfully in this way... It generally turns out to be an argument because one or the other gets too sharp with words or someone gets ticked off...LOL

Maybe the gathering of learned masters can flow along in a healthy and non-attacking debate... but among the general populace, it's gonna turn into a hash slinging contest brother!

There was a monk told me a story of a teacher keep pouring water into a pupil cup trying to explain to the pupil that the pupil mind is full and cannot take in ......I told the monk perhaps is the teacher mind which has overflowed .....
To me Buddhism is about learning from own self or others NEVER about teaching ...perhaps no one including Siddharta himself can teach Buddhism to others .....as to me Buddhism is beyond knowledge

Personally, No one can master anything, After all, we never stop learning.

[CSEe]

To me , debating is not a form to defend own view or to prove others are in wrong or even to prove we are right ....to me , the reason I wish to debate especially with those who currently teaching Buddhism , claiming own self as master or teacher is because I cant understand what is their reason that makes them to teach and to discover own reason in my own process of learning......this is because to my current understanding , Buddhism is beyond knowledge and it is something impossible to teach even for Siddharta Gautama himself .........so what is the reason that currently there are hundreds of thousand teacher out there ?...............
If in knowledge or skill like in education , maths , sport , cooking , hand craft or even in sex ......yes we can have teachers that show us their skill / knowledge and teaches us ...but to me Buddhism is realization on own self , is you knowing your emotions , realizing your emotions , accepting your emotion so how could Dalai Lama knows you realize your emotion less than he realize his own emotion and teach you to realize your emotion ?........

So to all the teacher out there , please tell me why you think you are a teacher and teach others Buddhism .................I really wish to discover your reason for my own learning process .

Originally Posted by CSEe
In my current understanding ,Buddhism is not an answering machine to fulfill our desire to know , perhaps you should explore your desire to know rather then to find the answer to fulfill your desire to know ...........
To my current understanding in Buddhism there is no rich or poor , no sick or healthy as all condition is in a process , a condition that one in during own process into emptiness back into nothingness and this process is known to me as Buddhism.....

Thanks CSEe,
If a poor or sick person face to you and ask you a question why he was born in poor family or always be sick, do you still answer like you answer me? Let me know your idea.

[CSEe]

Originally Posted by tttin

Thanks CSEe,
If a poor or sick person face to you and ask you a question why he was born in poor family or always be sick, do you still answer like you answer me? Let me know your idea.

In my current understanding of Buddhism , all being regardless living or non-living , human / animal / plant / micro-orgsm / table / pen / computer on your table is all same and equal ......I am same and equal to all and same and equal to the dirt under your shoe ...........and all being regardless living or non-living is always alone in own natural process freeing own polluted energy towards freedom of it and back into original condition of nothingness - The Buddha .

If a person born sick or poor or handicap , that is never their choice as Buddhism is not a choice , we cannot choose whether we want to in or out of Buddhism .....we are always in Buddhism ......nothing is outside of Buddhism for all living or non-living is all the same .
In my current understanding of Buddhism , nothing is belong to me nor family , material even "my" body is never owned by me .........and regardless what condition I in , I am in Buddhism ........always never my choice but is natural .

So if a person born without both legs , that is not his choice but in Buddhism he is in his own condition to realize his existence , same and equal as any human ........he is always alone in his world and his journey but he has a choice to choose his path , has a choice to awaken same as any human .............
In my current understanding of Buddhism , all emotion regardless love , joy , greed , fear , ego is all the same ....we suffer because we choose to use knowledge as the basis , that is current human culture . So if we poor , sick , lost love one we suffer ............that is because our knowledge tell us what is rich , what is healthy and our love one is ours .....in Buddhism as what I currently understand , we owned nothing .........so my daughter is same and equal as the dirt under my shoe ........and whether I become a millionare tomorrow or get cancer tomorrow is just part of my realization process on my emotion as the body is never belong to me , the money is never belong to me ................and death is the process of the material body that never connected to me ......


This is my current understanding of Buddhism but I am far from accepting it as I am still full of pollutant....still in learning process .

Thanks CSEe,

If everything are same, why Gautama Buddha teach us should do good thing instead of bad thing?

If everyone are same and equal, murderer and normal person are same?

If your Buddhism experience (about "same" and "nothingness") is from sources on internet or teaching of someone, please show or re-tell me.

[maejin]

Originally Posted by CSEe

In my current understanding of Buddhism , all emotion regardless love , joy , greed , fear , ego is all the same ....we suffer because we choose to use knowledge as the basis , that is current human culture . So if we poor , sick , lost love one we suffer ............that is because our knowledge tell us what is rich , what is healthy and our love one is ours .....in Buddhism as what I currently understand , we owned nothing .........so my daughter is same and equal as the dirt under my shoe ........and whether I become a millionare tomorrow or get cancer tomorrow is just part of my realization process on my emotion as the body is never belong to me , the money is never belong to me ................and death is the process of the material body that never connected to me ......

It is not the same CSE. There is suffering and there is happiness. Your daughter to you may be the same as the dirt under your shoe, but the dirt under your shoe does not suffer. The process of realization is what leads out of suffering, through the understanding of the three characteristics of nature (impermanence, suffering, non-self) and the cultivation of the 7 factors of enlightenment we go beyond suffering. Therefore to reach self realization we must help others and grow in love and compassion. That is why the Buddha taught. If all things were the same as dirt under your shoe then the Buddha would never have taught and there is no point in gaining enlightenment. but it is not like that.
Sentient beings i.e beings that can feel think and know are not dirt. They are important. Also it is because of your past good karma that you are able to live comfortably and discuss and debate on the internet, if you consider everything as dirt there is no motivation to improve or change or to help yourself or others which is the true basis of the teaching of the Buddha, that of progress and freedom.
Therefore in one sense we can say that all things are the same that pain and pleasure, happiness and suffering and rich and poor are the same (in theory it is correct) but in practice it is not correct because to gain enlightenment you have to practice the "four right efforts" - 1) To arouse and grow that which is good in us (thought, speech, action), 2) To maintain that which is good in us, 3) To eradicate that which is bad in us (thought, speech, action) 4) To make sure that which is bad does not arise again once it is eradicated.
So as long as you see everything as same CSE you will not progress. In theory it is ok to say everything is the same. But in practice everything is not the same.