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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Lifestyle > Vegetarian & Vegan

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  #1  
Old 12-07-2017, 01:59 PM
youngnostic youngnostic is offline
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Being Vegetarian

Hey die's and gents...
I have somewhat of a controversial thought and this may or may not take long to put into words, but I feel like this is the right place for me to share my thoughts on it:

I've been raised as a "theoretical" vegan from birth.
My father told me early on that eating meat was bad for you but he also condemned the consumption of milk, which made sense to me, since he used very cunning logic that made it seem like it's only suitable for baby cows.
I hopped back and forth from many diets, including strict vegetarian to vegan to eating only grains, fruits and water, (a diet I called "breadafruitarian") to going completely raw, to being a mono-fruitarian (mono meaning: eating on kind of food per meal) and never settling on one diet, until...

I met a certain person that I consider a Spiritual Master/Guru who simply told me he was "vegetarian"... I didn't follow him immediately even though he striked me as a balanced, harmonious and "peculiar" fellow because I was an Orthodox Christian (raised by my mom) at the time, and he was wearing a turban and had a beard and was wearing a hare-krishna like garments.

So anyways, it wasn't until I was doing some soul searching that I remembered that individual and could clearly remember him telling me: "I'm vegetarian" to which I responded: Why not try it? because at the time, I couldn't maintain a vegan diet because it always felt malnourishing and so I decided to give vegetarianism a try and the first thing I did was pour myself a glass of milk and drink it guilt free, out of confidence and, dare I even say, "faith" in my new Teacher.
Lo, and behold, that glass of milk was so nourishing that I realized I should cut out meat and fish and go vegetarian. It's now been 4 years and I haven't swayed nor thought of changing diets, (unlike when I was vegan and couldn't fill my belly with enough nutrients because all I was consuming were carbs, and soy milk never did it for me)

Now here's the tricky part, that I'd like to assertain:
my justification, on a moral/ethical level for drinking milk, is that there is no murder involved in the consumption of cow milk.
In fact, the milk a cow provides is a gift, a virtue, from the cow, and to consume it, is to sacrifice your own ideals for the gift it has to offer... so even if it does harm you somehow as vegans believe; by you receiving that gift you are accepting the cow's virtue and not telling it go to waste, but rather circulating it.

Now, for those of you, who believe in a raw food diet and have happened to read the spiritual classic "Essene Gospel of Peace" -- even there, the author states that "the milk of beasts" is permissible to humans.
(In case you don't know what the Essene Gospel of Peace is, it's a must read for anyone interested in diet from an esoteric perspective that is highly idealistic and even states that cooking your food is denaturizing it; claiming that raw fruits and herbs of the field are best, but as for that, I see it as an ideal for the Golden Age.

Now that aside, this is what I wanted to share regarding why I'm vegetarian and how it seems to be a longevity based diet that is perfectly balanced and seems to be the middle way of diets where you don't feel malnourished like on veganism and you don't constantly seek on something to munch on.

Now in case you're wondering; do I consume eggs?
The answer is yes; and here's why:
Eggs are simply the ovaries of a chicken and if they are not fertilized they do not contain a conscious being within them so they are simply the period of a chicken. They contain nutrients that are meant to feed the chick enclosed therein but also to be used for food by humans if that is preferable.

I also see vegetarianism as a lot more compatible in this day and age if you like to go out with friends and they are not vegetarian as it is far less restricting unlike veganism where you're forever left empty due to high carb intake and not enough fats that you can get through milk and eggs.

Also I've done several blood tests and I've never come short in any nutrients unlike my sister who was temporarily a vegan and was lacking in iron and vitamin B's.

Thanks for reading. Feel free to share your thoughts.
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Old 13-07-2017, 12:00 AM
Tobi Tobi is offline
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Thinking about what you said, from compassionate standpoint only, then ideally of course it would be okay to drink a glass of milk a day and eat eggs!
But unfortunately the world of farming and consumerism doesn't work that way.

If you had a cow who was treated very well, and lived in a field with lots of grass, and good shelter and who was respected...and she had a calf and came into milk, then (if she allowed you to) taking a glass of milk every day from her wouldn't make a great deal of harm or difference. She would be content and healthy. Her calf would still be well-fed.
Now I actually knew a man who did exactly that. He loved his cows, and treated them well indeed. He lived in a bothy in the same field as his cows. He took a little milk each day, enough for his own needs, and this caused no harm to the cows or calves.
He was a Krishna follower too.
But that isn't how dairy cows or their offspring are treated in the 'real world' of dairy farming. Even organic dairy farmers are more or less forced to treat their herd and the offspring in a similar way.
https://www.peta.org/issues/animals-...airy-industry/

Have you ever lived near a farm -even a fairly 'kind' farm, where the animals have access to fresh air and grass and proper exercise? Have you ever heard those plaintive endless calls in the night of a mother to her lost young ones, taken away (and if they happened to be male -killed)? I have because I live a quarter mile away from a dairy farm. And those hollow calls will go on until I literally hear the cow go hoarse.

Eggs....there's another one. Absolutely....what's the harm in taking a couple of unfertilised eggs for your breakfast, from hens who are happy, cared for, live mostly outdoors, with good shelter and protection against predators? Now there are cases of hens becoming emotionally attached to their eggs, and then you have a 'broody hen'. They should be respected, and allowed to work out their attachment in their own time. It may be hormonal, but they still deserve respect. But many hens will dump their eggs which will go bad -so what's the harm in scooping some up? No harm.
But again -that's not the way the egg industry works either. Even "free range" eggs aren't always telling a good story about what happens to the hens. And certainly "Barn eggs" come from hens who have the most weird and sad life, usually of one year long only -then horrendous slaughter. And that's even before we get to caged hens and egg production! (do I need to spell that out?)
There is also a chicken farm just down my lane where barn eggs are produced, so I know what happens. Unmarked trucks -16 wheelers -come slowly down the lane in the dead of night when the barns are 'cleared'. I feel there is too much shame or something for them to come in the daytime, because they always come at 2-3am.
I always say a prayer for those animal souls because I know what happens to them. It is not just a quick death either.
And of course the baby male birds are put alive into grinders as they cannot produce eggs!

Okay, if you know someone who loves hens and keeps them on their land or garden and all is well then eating a few eggs (I feel) is no harm done. But commercial eggs have a terrible story behind them.

Yes we can't be perfect. And some people cannot handle a totally vegan diet. I appreciate that. But that just means compromises have to be made one way or another. It's always good though if extra work can be put in to try to find a genuine humane supplier or neighbour who believes in true animal welfare.

For anyone who wants to be vegan but who is worried about B12: https://www.vegansociety.com/resourc...ts/vitamin-b12
There are vegan supplements also for Omega 3 and other nutrients. Research is helpful if you are committed. It is not too hard to research what is needed.
And "doing the maths" about the cost of such supplements usually works out at not much more -or even the same -as the cost of animal food products in the diet weekly.
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Old 13-07-2017, 07:36 PM
In Flux In Flux is offline
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Also, commercially used chickens are bred to lay 250 to 300 eggs per year, whereas naturally they would lay 10 to 15! Image the toll on their bodies. I prefer to be a vegan rather than to worry about my diet's effect on animals. Though this does not take away the worrying, if feels much lighter in my day to day life.
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Old 14-07-2017, 07:14 PM
Baile Baile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngnostic
Now here's the tricky part
There's no tricky part. Just eat fruit and vegetables. There are a 1000 ways to prepare them if you need some variety.

That's it, that's all you need, it really and truly is that simple.

Added bonus if it applies: you will never gain weight. You will stay at your ideal weight, forever. It's like a spiritual weight-watchers dream diet: it's morally/ethically perfect; and you don't have to think about anything or count carbs or jump on a scale, ever. Just eat what you want, when you want.

Oh and soy/almond/cashew >>> cow's milk all day long.
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Old 16-07-2017, 03:02 PM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobi

For anyone who wants to be vegan but who is worried about B12: https://www.vegansociety.com/resourc...ts/vitamin-b12
There are vegan supplements also for Omega 3 and other nutrients. Research is helpful if you are committed. It is not too hard to research what is needed.
And "doing the maths" about the cost of such supplements usually works out at not much more -or even the same -as the cost of animal food products in the diet weekly.

I wholeheartedly agree that it is crucial to take B12 supplements and I would even include large numbers of the meat eating population in that recommendations as well.

As far as the omega 3's, you can dispense with supplements by simply eating about four or six walnut halves per day (yes they contain omega 3 oils and you don't need much) or you can use hemp oil in your smoothies or added at the last minute to a bowl of soup or in a home made salad dressing. It's important to remember that omega 3 fatty acids are very delicate so you cannot cook with the oil or heat it or toast the walnuts. Good post Tobi.
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  #6  
Old 16-07-2017, 03:14 PM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobi


Eggs....there's another one. Absolutely....what's the harm in taking a couple of unfertilised eggs for your breakfast, from hens who are happy, cared for, live mostly outdoors, with good shelter and protection against predators? Now there are cases of hens becoming emotionally attached to their eggs, and then you have a 'broody hen'. They should be respected, and allowed to work out their attachment in their own time. It may be hormonal, but they still deserve respect. But many hens will dump their eggs which will go bad -so what's the harm in scooping some up? No harm.
But again -that's not the way the egg industry works either. Even "free range" eggs aren't always telling a good story about what happens to the hens. And certainly "Barn eggs" come from hens who have the most weird and sad life, usually of one year long only -then horrendous slaughter. And that's even before we get to caged hens and egg production! (do I need to spell that out?)
There is also a chicken farm just down my lane where barn eggs are produced, so I know what happens. Unmarked trucks -16 wheelers -come slowly down the lane in the dead of night when the barns are 'cleared'. I feel there is too much shame or something for them to come in the daytime, because they always come at 2-3am.
I always say a prayer for those animal souls because I know what happens to them. It is not just a quick death either.
And of course the baby male birds are put alive into grinders as they cannot produce eggs!

Okay, if you know someone who loves hens and keeps them on their land or garden and all is well then eating a few eggs (I feel) is no harm done. But commercial eggs have a terrible story behind them.





I had a couple of rescued hens for about four years all together. Our friends who were moving into the city had two young hens left after the fox got the rest and didn't know what to do with them. They were young, hadn't even laid an egg yet when we got them. But once they started laying, except for when they were moulting, they laid an egg a day. They had all the laying pellets they could eat, fresh water daily, their own little hen house and when the sun was shining, they could go outside into their own yard (probably the size of the average persons back yard, where they could take dust baths, scratch in the dirt, eat bugs and all the weeds they thought might be tasty. They even used to get extra stuff from the garden. Chicken heaven!

But despite the fabulous life, they both died at about four years of age. No signs of sickness for either of them. But several months apart, they each suddenly faded out and after three days of not eating and no interest in life, they were gone. I think they were just burnt out from all the egg laying. It would be the equivalent possibly of a woman having her period every day I would think.

So home grown eggs, even when your chickens get the best treatment and loving, it's not a good deal for them. We've changed their bodies in a bad way.
And for those who are curious, no, I didn't eat the eggs. My dogs got them, the chickens got them and sometimes my husband who doesn't share the same philosophy would eat one now and again.
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