IS INTERFAITH VIABLE?

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice

No "therefore" intended. Just relevant.

Just expanding now I'm getting my morning caffeine shot.

I was dipping into theologians such as John Hicks in my early twenties. I'm now 72. Back then he was suggesting that as far as our Faith Traditions are concerned they should be seen as each revolving around God, not Christianity. I took that on board. Ah, say the doctrinaire, that is when the Cobbler began his long descent into the pit, to the wailing and gnashing of teeth. So be it. As I say, I took it on board and now it is second nature to my mind/heart to relate to our world in such a way.

Perhaps going off at a tangent - but my own woolly mind does not think so - Thomas Merton (yes, him again, and no, I will not "ditch" him or anyone else at the say so of anyone in this Forum) once spoke of "belief" and related it to a passage from the Church Father Irenaeus (A passage that my own understanding and experience associates with the Pure Land notion of "being made to become so (of itself) without/beyond the calculation of the devotee, where "no working is true working")

Irenaeus wrote:- "If you are the work of God wait patiently for the hand of your artist who makes all things at an opportune time........Give to Him a pure and supple heart and watch over the form which the artist shapes in you........lest, in hardness, you lose the traces of his fingers......"

Merton comments......

The reification of faith. Real meaning of the phrase we are saved by faith = we are saved by Christ, whom we encounter in faith. But constant disputation about faith has made Christians become obsessed with faith almost as an object, at least as an experience, a "thing" and in concentrating upon it they lose sight of Christ. Whereas faith without the encounter with Christ and without His presence is less than nothing. It is the deadest of dead works, an act elicited in a moral and existential void. To seek to believe that one believes, and arbitrarily to decree that one believes, and then to conclude that this gymnastic has been blessed by Christ - this is pathological Christianity. And a Christianity of works. One has this mental gymnastic in which to trust. One is safe, one possesses the psychic key to salvation"

The key as I see it is in the "encounter with Christ". We do not dictate when it has happened or when. Personally I have no idea as to whether Inter-faith is "viable". If others wish to dictate exactly what any "encounter" with Christ - or Tao, or Logos, or Word, or Allah, or Reality-as-is, or Amida, or Word - is, or must consist of according to their own belief, creed, dogma or particular interpretation of any book, holy or not, then all I can say is, "Get on wirh it, and may your God go with you."

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

Just as a follow up, if anyone is remotely interested, a story from the Jewish tradition, relevant here. It anyone considers it not relevant, just remember that you can never "explain" a joke to retain its humour. You either "get it" directly or you don't.

A couple of disciples of the Baal Shem Tov asked him how to know whether or not a celebrated scholar was a true holy man. He answered:- "Ask him to advise you what to do to keep unholy thoughts from disturbing you in your prayers and studies. If he gives you advice, then you will know that he belongs to those who are of no account."

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice

...Merton comments......
The reification of faith. Real meaning of the phrase we are saved by faith = we are saved by Christ,
whom we encounter in faith..... Whereas faith without the encounter with Christ and
without His presence is less than nothing.

''Reification (also known as concretism, hypostatization, or the fallacy of misplaced concreteness) is a fallacy of ambiguity,
when an abstraction (abstract belief or hypothetical construct) is treated as if it were a concrete real event or physical entity.

Huh?

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

A nice little sermon on makyo here....

http://https://www.patheos.com/blogs/monkeymind/2020/05/zen-in-five-minutes-what-about-visions-on-the-spiritual-path.html

[sky]

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice

A couple of disciples of the Baal Shem Tov asked him how to know whether or not a celebrated scholar was a true holy man. He answered:- "Ask him to advise you what to do to keep unholy thoughts from disturbing you in your prayers and studies. If he gives you advice, then you will know that he belongs to those who are of no account."

, He definitely had a different approach to Teaching, but He was a Mystic.
' Intuitively, the reaction to disturbing thoughts and erotic fantasies is to chastise oneself, to cause oneself psychological pain. The Baal Shem Tov rejected this path. Rather than wrestling with the dirt head on, he provided a path that soars high above.'.

Study with energy and great joy.
That will reduce disturbing thoughts. Tzava’at Harivash 51.

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

Originally Posted by sky123

, He definitely had a different approach to Teaching, but He was a Mystic.

Yes, I'm not trying to question anybody, least of all to annoy them. I see a direct connection between an authentic "encounter with Christ" and the Baal Shem Tov's words. What is "authentic" cannot be transmitted by words as such. Again, what is "authentic" can never be measured by any particular experience, vision, or whatever. Rather, I would say, by how we meet the moment - and if in that moment it is another human being, then "measured" by how we meet them, how much empathy, how much we hear them and not ourselves. (As a Buddhist I would say that we can become far too full of ourselves, and yet still as a Buddhist I can recognise the truth found in the NT verse:- "For we walk by faith, not by sight" - when we begin to trust our "sight" and our past experiences we risk losing our true encounter with Christ.....Tao......Word...... Who are always in the moment, not the past)

That is how I see it.

[BigJohn]

Today's newspaper has an interesting article on how diverse religons are coming together to help out the Alfganistan refugees. The article noted how interesting that this Interfaith activity is so vital at this time in Earth's history.

[BigJohn]

From what I have seen, all religions, even Buddhism, is based on Faith. Faith seems to be a common denominator amongst the religions.

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Wanna 'splain to me the Rabbi's words, then, from your angle?

See my post 240.
Thanks
(See also link given in post 238 re the limitations of any particular "experience")
As far as the contrast angle, that was yours! (See your own post 235) I assumed you saw a contrast!

(Thus it was "illuminating", explaining to me why you continually post of such "experiences" when replying to so many here in various threads, apparently implying some sort of "greater depth" to your own "spiritual" life)

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice

See my post 240.
(See also link given in post 238 re the limitations of any particular "experience")
(See your own post 235) I assumed you saw a contrast!

I'll be taking this to pming. :)