On the nature of meditation

Hi guys!

I found my way to this forum because I have a question, and I was hoping to get some opinions that require a bit of experience with meditation.

You see (and you can skip ahead to the last section in bold if you wish to just read the question, and not all the chatter), I know (by research) that meditation is supposed to be THE thing, to say it in short - it will help with a whole load of things. This is even a topic where science and spirituality actually agree, and it has even been shown that the brain actually physically changes when developing with meditation.

If this wasn't enough motivation for me to begin meditating regularly, then there's been a few additional motivational marks... Long story short, I've always been very interested in spiritually and the way of the world, but also very logical, scientific, and skeptic. So, for many years I've sought answers through several ways, one of which was the clairvoyant abilities of others. I have tried to use this to create "a picture" by holding together all the pieces from countless clairvoyance sessions of different sorts. For a long time this was just to see if there was indeed any coherency, but when I found that there was, it developed into investigating subjects such as what did I want - on a soul level - to achieve in this life. Okay, so actually a long story for just a little point; I have a gotten a lot of remarks in the line of this specific one: " you are also on something of a spiritual quest... I urge you to take up the practice of daily meditation - one of your goals is to "pierce the barriers of our limited consciousness," availing yourself of a Higher wisdom... meditation will help you pursue the spiritual quest you have set for yourself."

Okay, sorry for all the writing, but all in all plenty of motivation and cause to begin meditating, right? Problem is, I find it SO boring. Big deal! Plenty of things are boring, so get a grip! Achieving some form of higher insight actually sounds like some of the best I've ever heard, yet when I don't feel I have anything to latch on to, such as a small sign that something is happening, I can't, or maybe won't, stay motivated. The mind is a like a muscle, and it can be trained, with meditation, for instance. However, it is not quite like training a muscle, which I find more motivating because even though I knew when I started that it would take at least 4 sessions of 2 hours a week for 4 years to get where I wanted, I did it, gladly, because I could see and feel right away that I was going somewhere, whereas with meditation I feel I could go on for 2 hours a day for 50 years and possibly have achieved nothing but wasting my time.

Anyway, I have found no solution to this, but one idea emerged to do just a little without feeling that it's a daily burden added to the list of thing I have to overcome, though I don't really feel like it. Music...

So, really, my question is about the nature of meditation. I've found that some music makes my mind kinda go blank, and it's supposed to that under meditation anyway, right?. So, so far so good. Right now I have a specific piece in mind, as an example: "The Ecstasy of Gold". Now, I can't post URL, but for those who don't know it and are curious it's by Ennio Morricone, and can of course be found on You Tube :)

So this has no lyrics to "disturb" me or get me thinking. Good! And I think I could listen to this piece, or others that I like, for hours at a time. Also good! The thing is, however, it's not usually tranquility or stillness that is inspired here, but more a feeling of... Focus, sternness, power, energy, and goose bumps! I love it, and I notice how I automatically sit more straight and feel less tired and inclined to lose focus when I listen to it, and I think I could just stand straight and stare out my window at "nothing" for hours at a time listening to it.

But the question is, has this got anything to do with meditation at all? Is meditation stillness of thoughts only, or is it also a stillness of being, of emotions?

If your read all of this, that's good going, and if you have any helpful insight to any of it, then I greatly appreciate it!

Thanks for reading!


Martin

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Harebrained Baboon

I've found that some music makes my mind kinda go blank, and it's supposed to that under meditation anyway, right

Blanking the mind is a useful step. It is however, a preparation step (and a useful side benefit), not actual meditation.

Originally Posted by Harebrained Baboon

Is meditation stillness of thoughts only, or is it also a stillness of being, of emotions?[/b]

Complete stillness is best, of all internal commotion. In addition to thoughts and emotions there are ego, physical, psychological, doings, and spiritual commotions to name a few. This preparation process is also known as detachment. If all you did was still everything, you would basically just be dead.

The missing element of meditation you didn’t mention is being present. The ‘point’ is that all those commotions (inner turmoil) are not you nor even your self-expression. They are simply jangle that has accumulated around you. When you clear all that stuff, you can simply directly express your inner nature. This is the ‘real’ goal of meditation. It’s hard for beginners to understand that this expression is not a doing, trying, or accomplishment. It does take most meditation quite a while to experience this direct expression. When they do however, most of the questions and doubts about the meditation process disappear (other than please tell me how to do that again).

If thoughts are In your head while you meditate I believe that's contemplation?
But it is exceedingly difficult to stay completely detached. But if you do. Unity consciousness awaits.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by TheAshCooper

If thoughts are In your head while you meditate I believe that's contemplation?

Only if the thoughts are reflective towards figuring something out. Thinking I am really tired, hungry and cold is not contemplation. Only when you start thinking about how to do something about that situation is it contemplative.

[Mr Interesting]

I've been meditating for years, making it up as I go along, and got to blissful states and the deep stillness etc but then for some reason I stopped being able to get that deep and just today found a video, followed his ideas and went straight back to deep, quiet and relaxed.

That said I've been able to stop thinking for ages but my problem was wandering focus and with the video, a few simple words, I'm back on track.

The guys called channelhigherself on youtube or his website is channelhigherself.com

Sometimes... often, all it takes is the right start and away we go.

I can meditate for hours everyday and I love it. I also like going for a swim in summer! Not much else appeals to me other than that.

[Sepher]

Dear Martin,

You described your struggle with meditation and how you found it boring and found your mind wandering. From my experience and not everyone will agree with me Meditation is a beginning level technique that is actually very passive, too passive especially for individuals in the West. When one empties their mind they are waiting for something to come to them passively. In more advanced out of body travel one takes a more active role of determining our destination and making it more exciting for ourselves and centered around our actual spiritual goals. I practice something similar but different called spiritual exercises and as a result I have had many out of body experiences to levels of heaven unknown to meditation. If this sort of focus interests you there are some videos about out of body travel and a map of the heaven levels on a website called Vardankar. And then you asked is meditation only stillness of thought only, being and emotions.

In answer to that the step beyond meditation that I mentioned goes far beyond the goal of meditation. The goal of the spiritual exercise is to reach Self Realization (A direct experience and realization of who we are) and God Realization ( A direct experience of God). Meditation only leads usually to astral travel at most. But the Spiritual Exercises in Vardankar lead to heaven levels in the higher realms.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Mr Interesting

I can meditate for hours everyday and I love it.

I'm curious, have you tried staying in the state meditation brings? As opposed to doing it as a separate activity that you start and stop (as you would swimming).

[Mr Interesting]

Yes indeed, well, I haven't tried so much as being open to the idea that that's what it's for and though slow I can definitely feel a gradual passing into the normal state of a meditative way of being especially when I revert back to chaotic thinking which happens less and less and is more obvious when it does.

The hardest part seems to be feeling my body and breath as the eyes almost immediately take over the element of sensing... not thinking is relatively easy.

So yes the eventual all waking and sleeping as a meditative state is what is held as a place, time to fall into.

I have for quite a while been suspending thought as I go to sleep and have just in the last few days added breath consciousness to that. It's all a little bit at a time as the awareness spreads.

Thank you for your answers :)

Originally Posted by wstein

Blanking the mind is a useful step. It is however, a preparation step (and a useful side benefit), not actual meditation.

Complete stillness is best, of all internal commotion. In addition to thoughts and emotions there are ego, physical, psychological, doings, and spiritual commotions to name a few. This preparation process is also known as detachment. If all you did was still everything, you would basically just be dead.

Okay, so no thoughts AND no emotions, ruling out music, unless you have no relation to it or opinion of it, making it inconsequent.

Originally Posted by wstein

The missing element of meditation you didn’t mention is being present. The ‘point’ is that all those commotions (inner turmoil) are not you nor even your self-expression. They are simply jangle that has accumulated around you. When you clear all that stuff, you can simply directly express your inner nature. This is the ‘real’ goal of meditation. It’s hard for beginners to understand that this expression is not a doing, trying, or accomplishment. It does take most meditation quite a while to experience this direct expression. When they do however, most of the questions and doubts about the meditation process disappear (other than please tell me how to do that again).

I didn't mention being present because I didn't consider it a problem. Being there, sensing and registering is what it's about, right? I actually think the music helps because it gives me the focus to not "fall asleep" or wander off, but if emotions are "not allowed" then I guess it doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by TheAshCooper

If thoughts are In your head while you meditate I believe that's contemplation? But it is exceedingly difficult to stay completely detached. But if you do. Unity consciousness awaits.

Well, I can pretty much keep thoughts away, so that's not really the main issue. The real problem is that while I practice getting better at this I slowly die from boredom. So I need a way to get started, because let's face it, even if that is all it would take to achieve unity consciousness, it would probably take a while.

Originally Posted by Mr Interesting

I've been meditating for years, making it up as I go along, and got to blissful states and the deep stillness etc but then for some reason I stopped being able to get that deep and just today found a video, followed his ideas and went straight back to deep, quiet and relaxed.

That said I've been able to stop thinking for ages but my problem was wandering focus and with the video, a few simple words, I'm back on track.

The guys called channelhigherself on youtube or his website is channelhigherself.com

Sometimes... often, all it takes is the right start and away we go.

I can meditate for hours everyday and I love it. I also like going for a swim in summer! Not much else appeals to me other than that.

Well, stopping the thinking and keeping focus (especially with music) I can do (to a certain extend), but the main problem is that it's so boring to me that it becomes a burden to overcome. Music would help with that, but again, if emotions must be absent as well, then that's no good.

Originally Posted by Sepher

Dear Martin,

You described your struggle with meditation and how you found it boring and found your mind wandering. From my experience and not everyone will agree with me Meditation is a beginning level technique that is actually very passive, too passive especially for individuals in the West. When one empties their mind they are waiting for something to come to them passively. In more advanced out of body travel one takes a more active role of determining our destination and making it more exciting for ourselves and centered around our actual spiritual goals. I practice something similar but different called spiritual exercises and as a result I have had many out of body experiences to levels of heaven unknown to meditation. If this sort of focus interests you there are some videos about out of body travel and a map of the heaven levels on a website called Vardankar. And then you asked is meditation only stillness of thought only, being and emotions.

Thanks, I'll check it out :)

Originally Posted by Sepher

In answer to that the step beyond meditation that I mentioned goes far beyond the goal of meditation. The goal of the spiritual exercise is to reach Self Realization (A direct experience and realization of who we are) and God Realization ( A direct experience of God). Meditation only leads usually to astral travel at most. But the Spiritual Exercises in Vardankar lead to heaven levels in the higher realms.

So what was the answer again? Do you believe that meditation is stillness of both thoughts and emotion, or thoughts only?

Anybody who didn't find meditation boring at first? If so, why not?

Something a Hindu man told me that worked for me :

Don't see meditation as something to do. It's not an action. It is a state of being.

.....

Drop the expectation and you won't be bored doing it. Because all the fun in the world is in closing ones mind and just existing with the universe in equilibrium.