Individual origin

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Hi 7L ,

Nice to be back.

Yes, it's the message of spiritual teachers from time immemorial.
The triune components of existence are inseparable even if emphasis may shift.

Our 'misappropriation' of Reality (and consequent pain and suffering, etc.) comes from a separative consciousness and the subsequent inability to receive that Reality undistorted as an unrestricted Identity of Self - in any form, quality, etc.

'Be Here Now' means in the physical, an awareness of the infinite and eternal in all in the moment - a noble ideal and goal of spirituality.

Peace and blessings to you,

~ J

Jyotir...thank you so much for packing such a lovely energetic punch into that hug...very much appreciated.

I wish I could better unpack that bit...but it is just so true...

let me try anyway hahaha...(when did that ever stop me before? The true self will always out, eh?)

What really struck me is how when we live divided when we are in misalignment. Further, we do so by choice, once there is even the barest hint of awareness.

A house divided cannot stand. Meaning here not the body politic per se, but that our unique spiritual integrity cannot be maintained if we are (so to speak) one way "in spirit" and another in our waking world, artificially dividing who we are...and What Is.

This misalignment in the physical is ultimately the cause of suffering...and this is not only so for the unaware (who may actively perpetrate great trauma and harm and who may also have great resultant mental and emotional trauma as yet not apprehended or understood) -- although it is the suffering of the unaware which first comes to mind...of those fully or largely ignorant of the causes of their own suffering.

No, in fact, this misalignment in the physical arguably causes suffering even more pointedly and directly for all those who possess even a hint of awareness but who [must actively] choose to ignore the call to authentic love, unity, and wholeness in each now moment.

That is the meaning I unpacked, in addition to many others that can be unpacked...

And I thank you, my friend, for your insight and contribution
Peace & blessings,
7L

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Hi God-Like,

Stepping onto the slippery slope of various terminologies, their equivalencies and differences….

Within the system that I use, since ‘mind’ is inherently a form of limitation or ignorance of Self, then yes, it would have to be beyond mind - but it is also within mind as well, as nothing is essentially other than Existence/Consciousness/Bliss, even a conditional limitation such as mind.

It’s just that in the Cosmic/Universal, which is a conditionally qualified aspect of the All, that 'All-Consciousness' has deliberately limited its own Self-Awareness/Identity as Ananda/Delight by projecting Itself as innumerable exclusive concentrations of apparent division in various ‘individual’ forms and qualities, as a portion of existence (the Cosmic physical) that is conditionally ignorant of True Self, even if essentially, everything is Existence-Consciousness-Bliss, or Satchidananda.

Since this ignorance and apparent division is conditional, it may be transcended so that true identity (Delight) may be known in and through the individually differentiated life. This is only possible because the essence of that Bliss/Ananda/Delight is unconditional and infinite in its true nature, and therefore it incessantly emerges and evolves in the physical towards greater and greater self-awareness, which significantly for human beings includes the possibility of transcending the limitations of mind.

~ J

Hey J,


If we are talking about receding back to the origin of delight beyond the mind, I am a little confused how one can recede back into mind also?

Out from the darkness came the light of self, can the light of self recede back into the light of self as well as the darkness ..


x daz x

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

thank you...I've said it before but everything is essentially (like) a 12-step program really. So basically, this is where I'm at with all of it, LOL
And the affirmation from others who have been there is very important. It absolutely is. It tells us we are still human and thus still ultimately redeemable.

Where are you at in your soul recovery process? (you don't have to say...I am just showing interest and support ).
I made amends a hell of a lot easier with the one gent for whom I did the long-term healing, but it was an entirely different thing/situation.
Now I'm basically clueless with this other gent, but I have good intentions and I get that at some point it has to be much more explicit and consciously done.

And if I get shot down this time, at least it is a fully conscious effort in the right direction, to the good, no matter what.
After feeling naked, blindfolded, and waterhosed for aeons (otherwise known as "clueless"), it feels good to know what's gone before, no matter what.
I'll take my naked waterhosing with eyes wide open from now on, thanks very much...hahaha :)

BTW Daz...Raphael put in for a mention on this thread too since he gives me a constant stream of this stuff (more of the asking and receiving), including the Ram Dass mention to Jyotir.

Peace & blessings Daz
7L

Hey there Daz...I think this one got lost in the shuffle a few pgs back...so I'm bringing it fwd for you since you're back on the thread today
TBH I've also just had some really interesting experiences and then some followup discussions with Azrael too, on all this soul journey/origins/death & eternal consciousness stuff.
Everyone gets a mention on your thread ;) But I'm still digesting those last, so I'll save that for a later date :).

Peace & blessings,
7L

[Jyotir]

Hi 7L & God-Like,


Although there are obviously various statuses of consciousness that are relatively limited - like mind - those are still ultimately part and parcel of One Life, One Truth, One Self, One Being, One God.

So mind is still God in essence, but for our purposes not in actual function in the physical as an instrumentality.

It is because of the intrinsic limitations of mind - its ignorant cognition - that when polarised in mental consciousness as human beings, we act ignorantly and therefore cause suffering to ourselves and others. We are substantially aware of limitation though a limited cognition and therefore act in limiting ways, which in various forms represent everything from pain and suffering, to simple dissatisfaction with imperfection accordingly.

Meanwhile, God is aware of mind as God-Self.
But mind - and importantly our cognition in and through it - is not aware of itself as God-Self.

That is why mind fails and must fail. It knows and can only know a false, partial, limited cognition and therefore it indefinitely perpetuates self-limiting action, which by nature cannot be satisfying because we are essentially unlimited in Spirit and can only be satisfied if truly acting AS Spirit - consciously. It is only by and through our consciousness going beyond mind that the True Self/God-Self can be known, and as a result, action in truth-consciousness (God's Will) may also be effected.

Again, even when we suffer, Spirit/God is aware of this as merely an aspect of its own experience as Self-acting Delight - but importantly God is also aware of our suffering, and so that is where the dispensation of Compassion enters as a conscious instrumentality of Spirit. But for Spirit, essence and instrumentality are one and the same Identity. This also goes to imply that our very evolution of consciousness is itself a generalized form of that Love and Compassion… all towards the eventual realization of our own God-Self, offered by God/Spirit to us.

Receding refers to ‘return’ of the unillumined/ignorant being consciously to its ‘natural’ soul-status of full and permanent illumination/awareness/divinity which is nothing other than Delight. In Life, this occurs in and through a spiritual aspiration that is continuously emerging in the physical. When we recognize, acknowledge, and deliberately consecrate to that emergent aspiration as a conscious willful intention in practice, e.g., spirituality - it eventually and inevitable becomes God-realization which is the conscious permanent awareness of True Self Identity which is what the soul intrinsically possesses.

Otherwise, when we physically decease the soul withdraws from life and retains the essence of that true reality in and of itself, without the ‘baggage’ of the ignorant components of being that it withdraws/recedes from. But when we are incarnated in physical life, our predominant focus of attention, our consciousness as human beings is predominantly mental, vital, and physical - normally not the consciousness of the soul (although aspiring to it) which represents and is the true potential (God-Self) available in and though life.

Therefore we don’t recede back into mind - except when we reincarnate, but that is for the purpose of actualizing the potential of the soul/God-Self. When in the physical we must transcend mind into or towards that fuller awareness which is realization of True Self represented by the soul.

Keep in mind (haha) that in the stupendous process of spirit-emergence in the physical that Life is, ‘mind’ represents a transcendence of, or an emergence from a greater more fundamental ignorance constituted by matter. Mind has emerged from, or transcended matter as part of that ongoing aspiration of Spirit in the physical to realize itself. Human beings, who are themselves part of innumerable differentiated ‘beings’ within the profusion of Life which is essentially One Being, One Self, infinite and eternal, represent in large measure that emergence of mind out of matter and animated life.

But still, as significant as that emergence of mind is in the grand scheme, it's not the end-all of the evolution of consciousness in the physical. We can’t realize True Self in and through mind which although inherently more aware of Self than matter, or animation (relatively speaking) - still, mind represents a severe limitation (the nature of mind is to see reality by dividing it) which means we cannot realize God when our conscious focus is polarized in and though it, as with human life.

We have to go beyond the mind to realize our true nature. And this is what all great spiritual traditions emphasize in one form or another: the transcendence of mind to realize True Self.

~ J

[7luminaries]

Jyotir...reading that felt like prayer. The beauty of the awakened, heart-led consciousness (to use my poor words)...I feel both speechless and affirmed, simultaneously.

Amen

Peace & blessings,
7L

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Hi 7L & God-Like,


Therefore we don’t recede back into mind - except when we reincarnate, but that is for the purpose of actualizing the potential of the soul/God-Self.

~ J

Nice post J, too many things in it to respond now (if ever)

Keeping in line with my theme I will address this one aspect ..


So we have become something that is of the mind and we recede back into mind when we reincarnate?

Do you see that one cannot recede back into something mindful when one is already mindful?

Unless there is a different understand had between us regarding what is mind and what I am saying .

Take aside what one has become and relate to what we are that has not become anything (Self unmanifest)

I see it rather more that only what we have become as Self manifest can recede back to beyond mind as Self unmanifest .

Self manifest that has become has already become .. it would be like butter receding back into butter ..

What I am saying is that butter recedes back prior to becoming butter .


x daz x

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hey there Daz...I think this one got lost in the shuffle a few pgs back...so I'm bringing it fwd for you since you're back on the thread today
TBH I've also just had some really interesting experiences and then some followup discussions with Azrael too, on all this soul journey/origins/death & eternal consciousness stuff.
Everyone gets a mention on your thread ;) But I'm still digesting those last, so I'll save that for a later date :).

Peace & blessings,
7L

Hey there Daz...
Hmm...does this mean you really do have me on ignore (LOL hahaha....), or more likely, perhaps that you're not yet decided on the sharing of where you are in your origins/remembrance/etc journey?

It's all good either way, of course, but I think most folks enjoy hearing a bit about where you've been, where you started, and where you're at...
even if you keep it general, or short & sweet. Just to put a little plug in there

Peace & blessings, Dazzer
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Nice post J, too many things in it to respond now (if ever)

Keeping in line with my theme I will address this one aspect ..


So we have become something that is of the mind and we recede back into mind when we reincarnate?

Do you see that one cannot recede back into something mindful when one is already mindful?

Unless there is a different understand had between us regarding what is mind and what I am saying .

Take aside what one has become and relate to what we are that has not become anything (Self unmanifest)

I see it rather more that only what we have become as Self manifest can recede back to beyond mind as Self unmanifest .

Self manifest that has become has already become .. it would be like butter receding back into butter ..

What I am saying is that butter recedes back prior to becoming butter .


x daz x

Hey there Daz,
You're both right You are discussing different aspects or perspectives on the same truth, as I see it.

Jyotir is (to me) discussing the universal aspect and the universal aspects of incarnation within that. I think a key point is the limitation of the incarnated mind on the full development of consciousness, which we often refer to as awakened consciousness. It cannot be apprehended fully by the incarnated mind. That's why the mystics lead with the awakened heart, with awakened mind in service to heart. The awakened heart-led consciousness is the only way we can "see" or know or apprehend anything that is truly real, beyond a certain point.

Put another way -- for healers like us who experience everything tangible and intangible as sensory input for heart and mind, as well as body...you know all we are and know through this material realm and mind and nerves and sense is useless in astral realms. And all of those astral senses are equally useless in the emptiness or fullness of What Is. If it weren't for the heart, we'd be totally blind there...we'd be lacking even in sensation of texture and feeling.

You (to me) are discussing the uniqueness, the differentiation. Even more specificially, the input that is the product of the awakened individuated consciousness. What we consciously add to our spiritual progress to our universally sentient, self-aware human incarnation. You happen to know your awakened awareness feels completely unchanged beyond incarnation, beyond occupying the body -- except perhaps freer to access and manifest heart and centre and love, which for many (who are not awakened whilst in the body) is received as a great gift upon physical death.

BUT you also know there is still the challenge of manifesting that awakened awareness day-to-day in our lives. So here is where we see how key the heart-led consciousness of the mystics is to our lives day to day. So that we don't waste the opportunities and the gift of each new day. And so that we don't make misaligned choices. We could be unawakened and at least have some excuse to do that...hahaha. But of course that rationale is meaningless at a certain point The challenges still await. But now we realise them more fully.

What Jyotir is saying is true...and for me, the way of heart-led consciousness rings true. What you are saying is also true and is also at the heart of our journey. You are saying (to me) this what we bring...which itself is the challenge of incarnation. And again, the way of the heart-led consciousness stands first among all other ways.

Peace & blessings
7L

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hey there Daz...
Hmm...does this mean you really do have me on ignore (LOL hahaha....), or more likely, perhaps that you're not yet decided on the sharing of where you are in your origins/remembrance/etc journey?

It's all good either way, of course, but I think most folks enjoy hearing a bit about where you've been, where you started, and where you're at...
even if you keep it general, or short & sweet. Just to put a little plug in there

Peace & blessings, Dazzer
7L

I just take a post that floats my boat in the moment . No real particular order .

I don't mind speaking about where I am at in regards to the theme of the thread .

I have been touching on prior to mind and mind with J and I believe one's origin is prior to mind .

Mind entertains / allows a manifestation of what we are to become .

I have awareness of the comparison between unmanifest and manifest .

In regards to the journey, it is still unfolding from a linear perspective and what I consciously know is reflected in that unfoldment .

My journey at present still involves / entails a more than healthy percentage of my time in meditation / union / healing .. it seems to matter above most other things .

This is as it should be as again from a linear perspective it will become apparent / relevant at a certain point which is making more and more sense as time passes .

As touched upon with Moonie on the other thread about ignorance and remembrance of what seemingly matters or not there is a reason for why we are exactly where we are at in all areas of life in this moment .

I don't really want to contaminate too much of what matters with one's origin as our origin is beyond matter .


x daz x

[Jyotir]

Hello God-Like and & 7L,

Briefly, 7L has sorted out the issue by pointing out that two different things are evidently being discussed:

1) non-physical/physical; unmanifest/manifest; Being/becoming; static/dynamic;
Cosmic/Transcendent; etc. (what appears to be your point, God-Like)

2) gradations/distinctions/qualities/aspects of consciousness within or of each of those previous dual sets, whether considering one, both or either component within each set.

This begins to slide on the slippery slope of terminology, since some traditions designate ‘Mind’ as necessarily unmanifest, or implies the higher reaches of consciousness accessible while in the physical - such as ‘Buddha-Mind’ (hope I don’t attract the Buddhist crowd to this thread by that mention; those people really like to split hairs until they are completely frazzled (vs. dazzled).

The way ‘mind’ is defined in the system I use - whether physical or non-physical - is that it represents a particular consciousness that regards reality as divided & objective, and assigns ‘name and form’ to apparently separate components - a false perception; is incapable of seeing or synthesizing real wholeness/truth as subjective identity, etc. because by its very nature it is separative in its cognition - partial, limited, distorted, and therefore necessarily separative or divisive, limiting and binding in actions that result from it.


~ J