Free Will Is An Illusion

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Dwerg

I really dislike when people have to resort to quantum mechanics to confirm their views without showing to anything.

What is your issue with quantum mechanics?

I didn't resort to quantum mechanics, I 'resorted' to scientific experiment. Perhaps that might not carry any weight with you, fair enough.

I do have other experience to suggest that the past is not fixed. My other explanations are more subjective and harder to make a clear point with so I chose that one.

What does 'without showing to anything' mean?

FYI: I was not trying to rebut your statement of approach. I was suggesting an additional option should someone care to look into it.

Originally Posted by wstein

What is your issue with quantum mechanics?

I didn't resort to quantum mechanics, I 'resorted' to scientific experiment. Perhaps that might not carry any weight with you, fair enough.

I do have other experience to suggest that the past is not fixed. My other explanations are more subjective and harder to make a clear point with so I chose that one.

What does 'without showing to anything' mean?

FYI: I was not trying to rebut your statement of approach. I was suggesting an additional option should someone care to look into it.

i was having a conversation with a shawnee holy man and he told me the same thing-the past is not fixed. the physics is over my head but thought the idea was fascinating.

[Gem]

I've seen nothing in physics that says the past is changeable, but would be interested in that. I doubt anything like that exists, but if the claim was made then it should be easy to back up.

Originally Posted by wstein

This has no impact on free will. It only implies that you have already exercised free will.

My thoughts exactly. We have already made the decisions.
Hard for my simple brain, used to experiencing time as a progression of instants, to understand.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by wstein

What does 'without showing to anything' mean?

.

You didn't show any evidence that physics allows the past to be changed.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Ecthalion

My thoughts exactly. We have already made the decisions.
Hard for my simple brain, used to experiencing time as a progression of instants, to understand.

When was the decision made?

Originally Posted by Gem

When was the decision made?

In the past/future/present which all exist simultaneously.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Gem

When was the decision made?

That is not entirely a valid question.

The decision is made in a sense outside the bounds of the space-time continuum. Do not confuse that to necessarily mean you were not inside the space-time continuum exercising your free-will. From a time view inside the space-time continuum, the impact of free-will appears to 'start' at a certain point in time and space. As per the propagation of cause and effect (speed of light in the old physics) the effects ripple out to affect more of the universe.

For those able to be outside of space-time, free-will can be applied in much more complex ways as the application of will is not restricted to a singular origin (place and time from inside view). From such a time-less view, what is referred to as time is very clearly just another spatial dimension. One can look across it in the same way one looks across depth. The landscape just has one more 'direction' than the view we are used to seeing from with space-time.

One can think of it in this way: Where does water start running downhill? Answer: From where ever it is. So where water is placed determines where it will start. One can put water on a hill from below it, from above it, or while on it. One can insert 'free-will' in a similar manner, in a fairly arbitrary manner.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Gem

You didn't show any evidence that physics allows the past to be changed.

Hmm, just in case that was what was being complained about:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1465517.html

http://www.livescience.com/19975-spo...anglement.html

[Gem]

Originally Posted by wstein

Hmm, just in case that was what was being complained about:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/30/quantum-entanglement-experiment-future-past_n_1465517.html

http://www.livescience.com/19975-spooky-quantum-entanglement.html

I still don't see how Victor changed the past because the particles became entangled when he entangled them, and weren't entangled until he did. The article says he affects the past, but doesn't seem to explain how. Am I missing something?

"after they were measured"