The Process that Leads from Suffering to Liberation

[Gem]

The principle is that the freedom of infinite peace and love already exists within each individual. In that people are not directly aware of that, the assumption is that there is a process which leads to the direct experience that liberation.

This thread explores the process of moving from the bondage of suffering to freedom and liberation...

The only universal truth is a person's direct experience, so everyone is equally footed and has explorations of their own to make.

From suffering to liberation, what's the process?

[Nameless]

I am reading this book, Allen Carr's Easy Way to Stop Smoking (it has been recommended on here by many that by the end of the book, they quit easily and haven't looked back) and the basic premise of this book is "from suffering to liberation". Maybe not spiritual, but all it is is changing the belief - that stopping smoking can be easy instead of being hard like we are programmed to think it is, that we believe it is, and we can free ourselves of the slavery of smoking.

I must admit (as I light a cigarette) that I am reading this slowly, because I believe once I get to the end, I will be a non smoker, because I do believe it is easy to quit. :)

[God-Like]

If a hamster running on its wheel was likened to suffering then there is momentum that keeps the hamster in sufferings .

All the hamster can do is seemingly continue on this so called process that seemingly has no beginning and no end .

Then something happens that has not happened prior .

It seems as if a point is reached and it is only at this point does the hamster stop running and become still ..

Within this stillness there is clarity and Mr. Hamster can step off the wheel .

Liberation .

x daz x

[Mr Interesting]

A good friend was round my place yesterday and said that while out selling his wares, at markets, that hes still got his nervous laugh that follows him around still, and I said don't worry, you know it's there now and you'll slowly get perspective on it and realise where it's coming from and that awareness will eventually lead to it disappearing.

I think it's this choice or ability growing which initially has us looking at the world around us with some amount of distancing ourselves and eventually leads to us applying the same perspective to ourselves.

And initially I don't think that most people even know that what they are doing is suffering, unless ,of course, it involves some kind of pain, because one needs to almost touch non-suffering to get an idea of how suffering affects them. So this gradual process of self awareness, being aware of the self in isolation, leads on to an awareness of suffering which is followed to liberation.

But I got into something last week with an acquaintance and this illustrated, for me anyways, that two sidedness of suffering and non-suffering in a rather obvious way. I was doing work of a mechanical nature which I've done before and understand. It was about dismantling a bathroom to make it ready for eventual refurbishment but putting back the amenities, in the mean time, for use. This bathroom though had been put together with luck, spit and huge amounts of silicone to make up for the choice to use what could be described as proprietary parts and fell apart the more I touched it.

This frightened the person I was working for who become more and more agitated and unrealistic whilst before me I just saw a problem easily solved with the right spare parts being replaced. But the owner just saw chaos and this threw her into fear and anxiety.

No amount of my defending/defining the process did any good and if anything she went further into denial.

So what was the difference between me and her that had her suffering to the extent she was whilst I remained relatively calm but also couldn't help but become somewhat reactive to the situation which was just simply a collection of parts put together wrongly?

Our perceptions of events? And our control of events?

What surprised me more than anything was that whilst I was within the events it wasn't a matter of anything other than a series of problems that required solving and that those problems could be solved but this seemed to be at odds with this huge emotional response which couldn't see problems being solved but only that the few problems encountered would just start getting greater and greater. It all became a metaphor as opposed to a real collection of parts and it amazed me how quickly this situation arose.

So I suppose the beginning of liberation and the ending of suffering is about realising that the world is merely a collection of parts that will have some fitting together and some not and knowing when and where those parts fit together seems to be a valid perception of self as a part.

Processes sell...and give answers and allow people to measure where they are along a step by step journey.

There's nothing wrong with that if it works. But from a purely personal view, I don't get processes..they feel prescribed or restrictive. Yet I understand the choice to not suffer. It becomes a choice when we believe wholeheartedly that the choice exists. Maybe we have to understand what suffering constitutes too.

When the ingredients are all there we choose to suffer life or not. How we get there would logically depend on what ingredients aren't there.

[Belle]

Yet I understand the choice to not suffer. It becomes a choice when we believe wholeheartedly that the choice exists. Maybe we have to understand what suffering constitutes too.

I would add that it can be a subconcious choice that moves into the concious choice. For years I tolerated a job where i felt I had no choice. I remember someone explaining to me that I did have a choice and thinking that he was an idiot for not realising that I didn't have a choice. But I did, I could have decided at any point to leave. The choice was simply not within my reach to realise.

Sometimes, the choice might be the lesser of two evils. A poor example: I suffer the vitriol of my mother and feel slighted (bla bla bla) as the alternative - or how I see the alternatives - are much worse.

In the example above, I do have a control over the situation as I limit contact with her. But I don't reject her which appeases the conscience. And, I am changing myself so that the vitriol is water of a duck's back - I hope.

I'm not a martyr I hope, for me, the relationship with her is sacred and the karmic burden (so I believe) needs addressing.

Liberation might come in a future incarnation with respect to her. Would prefer to see it in this incarnation to be honest.

And, not everyone gets the long game treatment that my mother has!

[Gem]

The story about the bathroom was pretty cool, because a process starts here with this then moves on to the next thing, and can be seen a series of small steps, and in an orderly fashion, one step at a time gets the job done.

[Mr Interesting]

Yeah, and we just stop playing peoples games as part of our own games.

And I'm also all for allowing myself to feel what I feel irrespective if I'm told differently. That all adds up to a sense that we really do actually know whats good for us.

Those little niggles of years ago when I'd feel that one thing was so and be unsure because of that but if we stick with those feeling we eventually find out we're usually pretty right and that all adds up to having confidence in yourself and what we believe and feel is essentially us.

Maybe then, knowing ourselves, also allows us to see others that don't know themselves and keeping away from their games leads to better more open and honest events in which we can know ourselves even better.

But yeah, trust your own feelings even if all say they are wrong... given time they may be righter than you thought possible... it all adds up.

[DoctorStrange]

For me, there is no process.

You are oneness and have always been. The thing is to bring everything into balance, if something thinks that is a process, then ok, that's fine, but i just bring everything into balance with oneness in my life.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by LifeandOneness

For me, there is no process.

You are oneness and have always been. The thing is to bring everything into balance, if something thinks that is a process, then ok, that's fine, but i just bring everything into balance with oneness in my life.

Hi .

In one respect I agree that there is no process but with that in mind there can be nothing else either . If there is no process then there is no balance or oneness or life . .

Its like looking into a fruit bowl and saying the plum exists but the banana doesn't .

x daz x