What will happen to the materialistic non-believers?

Originally Posted by Rah nam

Unless the Soul and the consciousness are the same thing, but in Spirit we're supposed to be pure consciousness. But then the whole idea of individuality is a nonsense in Spirit too, so no Soul then?


Yes they are the same and no, spirit is not pure consciousness, spirit is created by pure consciousness the soul.
I see spirit just as an extension of the soul. The soul never enters the physical realms, and spirit is in a way the vehicle for the soul.

To be honest Rah, I've got to the stage where I'm not too bothered about it. One day I'll pop my clogs and everything will make sense, until then I'm quite comfortable not knowing. I think the important thing here is to be honest with ourselves and I doubt there are any real hard-and-fast answers to any of this. What I know for sure is that there is existence in some form or other 'up there', either that or every medium and myself are delusional. When I try to even imagine what that might be my head stalls. Perhaps Soul, Spirit, consciousness, Monad, Higher Self, Oneself/Overself are all reflective of humankind's attempts at trying to understand something that is so far beyond its ken.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

One day I'll pop my clogs and everything will make sense, until then I'm quite comfortable not knowing. I think the important thing here is to be honest with ourselves and I doubt there are any real hard-and-fast answers to any of this.

I like that approach Greenslade..

There are so many different explanations out there and honestly nobody knows what's going to happen because it's as subjective as it can get. We may as well argue over which colour is the best. I would add we shouldn't much focus on any 'afterlife' either, beyond a mental exercise, because we exist in this world and should appreciate it. If spiritual paths or teachings mention we should escape this world or wait for an apocalypse it's just a huge red flag..

[Rah nam]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

To be honest Rah, I've got to the stage where I'm not too bothered about it. One day I'll pop my clogs and everything will make sense, until then I'm quite comfortable not knowing. I think the important thing here is to be honest with ourselves and I doubt there are any real hard-and-fast answers to any of this. What I know for sure is that there is existence in some form or other 'up there', either that or every medium and myself are delusional. When I try to even imagine what that might be my head stalls. Perhaps Soul, Spirit, consciousness, Monad, Higher Self, Oneself/Overself are all reflective of humankind's attempts at trying to understand something that is so far beyond its ken.

I agree with the part, one doesn't have to know the inns and outs of this (uni)verse.
Its a bit like driving a car, to get from A to B one only has to know how to operate the car and the road rules. We don't have to know how to fix or construct a car. We can leave this to others.

I just write what I know, or as some would suggest, what I think I know.
It does not matter.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Hi 7L

If there are no agreements other than meeting up, I guess that makes our Spiritual development very random then. Sometimes people come to Spirituality because they've suffered a trauma of some kind, so if they've never suffered that trauma? The other option is that we do indeed what science calls a 'God gene' that predisposes us to Spiritual experiences,. so when we feel betrayed we're trying to make it into something metaphysical.

I really don't have solid beliefs but the only thing that makes any real sense is that there's a reason behind what happens to us. Perhaps I'm just the same as anybody else that tries to make rhyme and reason and that there is a meaning to Life, the Universe, Everything. The traumas create the major changes to our Lives and have the most impact on our Spiritual development, and from them we can either move on with our heads held high or succumb. I simply can't come to terms with the idea that they're random events because that leaves everything in the hands of chance.

Thank you, but it was worth it. So not to become too egostisitcal but purely for understanding, do I get bonus points for making all of that from a set of random events? Might I have been given that opportunity had there been no agreements?

Here I'd agree with you, all but for the last paragraph. If we have a Life's Purpose then surely it would be unwise to leave that up to random chance? I can't believe that there is such a thing within our Life experiences being random, it means that the Purpose becomes very hit-and-miss.

Hey there GS, I never said everything was random. I was more just been trying to keep it simple, LOL. So, as I mentioned, I actually do think/feel that some meetings & crossings are planned in the general sense, of course, mainly with our close soul fam and the occasional guest. And many less central meetings & crossings with those who are not close soul fam which are not planned.

But I also feel that no matter what is planned out, a little or a lot, the main thing is that we can always choose. We may find it more difficult to make better choices in some lifetimes or some circumstances...but even so, if we want to do so, then it can be done and often it is. We can struggle, and we can take hard decisions that require we do was is right and not what is easy. We can manifest love and support rather than anger or violence or cruelty. And in those quiet moments, we soar.

No doubt some of what occurs was agreed on, no doubt some was not. Above all, your intent, thought, word and deed were yours to choose and to share in any situation. So you get some points for rising to your better self with those you agreed to meet/cross paths with and to love and support accordingly. And you also get some points for dealing kindly and fairly with those you've tangentially met or crossed paths with throughout your lives.

I feel that it's not all random but that neither is everything tightly planned out. I feel there is and always must be room to breathe and to choose, or else, I feel that this experience is contrived and meaningless, in truth. And because I feel it is very meaningful, I do believe in that critical element of choice. I feel that the crux of our growth as souls is directly tied to these choices we make and to the intentions that go along with our thoughts, words, and deeds. It's in these choices taken (and in our reflections had) that we forge the mettle of our soul in this eternal now moment. The effects of our choices are thus eternal and cumulative, and are not bound to any one lifetime.

The feedback loop is that, as we forge our soul with our choices and with our reflections, then over time, our intentions and thoughts will tend to align more truly with our centre. This will strengthen the heart centre and will tend to encourage right action with less struggle. These inner struggles are arguably the most difficult aspects of our existence, if we are lucky enough to have food, shelter, and good health.

But who's to say? There are many paths to God, many paths to centre.

I didn't sense that my step-father was one of my Soul Group, but then if he'd been my abuser I'd think that would have an effect on my perceptions. He always felt as though he didn't belong somehow.

A tough thing to discuss. But suffice it to say that in many cases, abuse is not agreed upon. Rather, it is an outcome of living amongst an emotionally and spiritually primitive or infantile humanity. Imagine if infants and toddlers ruled the world with sticks and stones and could break your bones whilst having one of those frequent tantrums or bully sessions? Well, that's about right. And I think we're agreed that egregious abuse is often not of your soul group.

But, then again, I also know if you've loads of unresolved karma, then that might be exactly the reason you're getting murdered or what have ye, despite not signing onto that bit when you agreed to meet up. Yet if it's close soul family, you do want to resolve it and I don't know of anything except authentic love that will get you there. If it's not close soul family, then for my part, I think you can often choose to just let it go in general lovingkindness, forgive them, and be done with it, in most cases. If they wanted to offer reconciliation at some later point, a "random act" of kindness would certainly suffice.

I was responsible in part for aligning the energy grids in Atlantis, as I recall it had something to do with lining up the planetary grid system with the solar system's grid - which our solar affected. Because I was stabbed the grids began to move out of alignment and things started going a little haywire.

So...that's very respectable and all, for certain. But I was more interested in what you were doing off hours and why they would want to stab you. It's not morbid curiosity, just curiosity (LOL). I wanted to hear you say before I shared more :)

Mrs G have a history that goes back to before time itself existed, to keep it short for now. After losing both me and our son in such a short time she went a lot off the rails, and her post-suicide existence wasn't all fluffy clouds and harp-twanging. That meant her energies were 'out of vibration' with mine and she would have had a bad effect on me. She wanted to be with me in every Lifetime, it was because she Loved me so much that she went off the rails and for the same reason she wanted to be with me over the Lifetimes.

This is often where people's sensibilities go sideways, usually because they have a low-level of ethics which is a rules-based sense of right and wrong. For Mrs G to be with me for those Lifetimes she agreed to suffering, to keep it simple. For her to suffer someone had to make that happen, and it was the same Soul every time as far as I can determine. I remember the look in my step-father's eyes, sometimes I saw sorrow in them, and they do say that the eyes are the window to the Soul.

Again, very hard to read this bit. Very disturbing. So sorry for her troubles.

When I first read this bit, I thought that it was a terribly brutal deal. Then I thought that I myself couldn't have signed onto such a deal because it guarantees others suffer your loss. Yet, I've died early all other lives and I know others did feel abandoned. Next, I would feel suffocated by such an iron-clad deal...and would be repelled and turned off if someone else said they were "compelled" to do this or that I had compelled them somehow, because that is obvious codespeak for resentment and for fear and loathing -- all of which I would want no part of. And yet, you and Mrs G appear to treasure one another as souls and as people...her extreme arrangement has not put you off one another or caused any resentment...which to me is a beautiful thing. Resentment and loathing from your closest soul family, particularly over many lifetimes, can eventually induce a soul stigma, a truly caustic form of shame. Hard to cast off and set right without a direct touch, a direct address, an authentic love, a sincere reconciliation. Anyway, I died early in every prior lifetime, mostly violently. And the same goes for many, many others regarding past lives. So even without a disturbing agreement to suffer and die, obviously it can and often will happen anyway, more or less predictably so in many times and places.

Not that either of you would ever say or even feel any of those things, because you are at a different place with it all surely. You have been there for one another till you both got old in many lifetimes, which surely builds a process for mutually contributing to trust and regard and maturity in relationship. However, most of humanity are not with a close soul family member as a partner, most have had several violent past lives, and many have never lived peacefully with a truly beloved partner into old age in past lives. So for many reasons, your partnership with Mrs G is unusual, and so perhaps it's even harder for most of us to make sense out of her rather brutal arrangement. But then again, as I said, there are so many paths to God.

And if you and Mrs G have the mutual, deep, and resonant lovingkindness of close soul family, then who are we to say? TBH I never made it into old age before...and so I lost my children one way or the other in my other lives as women. For certain, from where I sit, I would have loved to have got old in any of those lives. And without a doubt, I felt blessed to have the love and support day-to-day on the ground from my close soul family in any form -- whether family, parent, child, beloved friend, mentor, partner, whomever. It just always ended too soon.

For me it meant that everything was known before I incarnated. Often we see thins from the perspective of linear time but if Spirit has no perception of time, and all of time is happening all of the time? I think that's why I was given the vision, to show me that it is at least known if not pre-planned.

The reason I wasn't shown the future is because it would have changed the future, and to be honest I don't want to know what's coming anyway because that would spoil things.

I think that's wise...things are always changing. And this way, what you did is on you and it's a result of what you thought or felt was right for you at that time.

Mrs G tells me that the plan is that she dies of a heart attack a few years before I die in my sleep. Personally I don't give it much truck though, so I'll take it as it comes.

Its a feeling that I'd pushed out of my mind but it was pretty crushing at the time.

It still baffles me, being honest. We've looked at where it happened and watched the dashcam footage, but none of it makes even physical sense. Still, I've been told that God has a plan for me - which to me is in the same vein as what we're talking about - but whatever the case I am grateful to 'them up there'.

You're very welcome, 7L

I'm at the stage where I can think that if there is a Life's Purpose and everything is pre-planned that everything will be resolved in it's own good time, we just have to be ready for the moment when it arrives. I've been told that I'm going to live until I'm 80, then I'm going to p[op my clogs. How I experience the time between now and then is my choice entirely. It feels as though I have gained enough for this Lifetime, that I understand as much as I need to and honestly I don't have the same stomach for the heated discussions any more.

I have around 20 years here then eternity after that, and every answer I've ever asked has been answered and nailed down. Then some. I've also been told that I'm not coming back here so as far as I'm concerned, I can throw my hat in the air and enjoy some post-graduation. Hurrah!

Well G here's to you and Mrs G surviving some narrow escapes and enjoying the well-deserved fruits of your labours And here's to many more years for the both of you!

Peace & blessings
7L

Originally Posted by Altair

I like that approach Greenslade..

There are so many different explanations out there and honestly nobody knows what's going to happen because it's as subjective as it can get. We may as well argue over which colour is the best. I would add we shouldn't much focus on any 'afterlife' either, beyond a mental exercise, because we exist in this world and should appreciate it. If spiritual paths or teachings mention we should escape this world or wait for an apocalypse it's just a huge red flag..

Thank you

You heart is racing at 220 beats per minute, your skin is cold and clammy and your chest feels as though there's an inflating balloon inside it. You can hardly see straight and your head feels as though it's swimming through wet concrete. Your heart is dangling by a thread and swinging about inside your ribcage and you're totally helpless. You're waiting for the ambulance and your wife has a look on her face as if she's resigned herself to this being the beginning of the end. You're debating with yourself about this experience being a lesson or negative karma?

I think it's easy to sit in a nice chair and debate matters such as this, but when 'real Life' takes a bite of our backsides where does our Spirituality go? Are we going to put our money where our Spiritual mouth is?

People are just people, man.

Originally Posted by Rah nam

I agree with the part, one doesn't have to know the inns and outs of this (uni)verse.
Its a bit like driving a car, to get from A to B one only has to know how to operate the car and the road rules. We don't have to know how to fix or construct a car. We can leave this to others.

I just write what I know, or as some would suggest, what I think I know.
It does not matter.

It comes down to what's important to you personally, I think. I spent some time as medium and the one question that was always competlely avoided was "What is it like up there?" Those that had passed on all seemed to be happy at least, aware of things that were happening in their Loved Ones' daily Lives and they always felt as though they were so full of Life. Even the non-Spiritual people and the atheists, and even the 'bad guys' seemed to be regretful of their 'real Life' actions. Nobody said "Well, we got these nice fluffy clouds to sit in all day" and nobody said "You know about that white, fluffy cloud stuff? Forget it."

Maybe Robin Williams had it right after all when he starred in What Dreams May Come. And perhaps we're asking the wrong question, perhaps instead of asking this question we should be asking what colour is consciousness, because the answers are the same.

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hey there GS, I never said everything was random. I was more just been trying to keep it simple, LOL. So, as I mentioned, I actually do think/feel that some meetings & crossings are planned in the general sense, of course, mainly with our close soul fam and the occasional guest. And many less central meetings & crossings with those who are not close soul fam which are not planned.

Hi there 7L


Sorry, we got a little disjointed there. I guess I'm OK with some things being random - Free Will and all that, but for the Life-changing, major traumas? I can't imagine how they'd be random, frankly it's a thought that I'm really not able to entertain. I know that my own abuse changed me and I'm damned sure that if it hadn't happened I wouldn't have been the nice guy I am today. Consequently I would have treated others differently and perhaps Mrs G could have been a mess still, and my daughters would never have been born. There's quite a long chain of cause and effect that essentially begins with that abuse. Sorry, but I can't entertain the thought that all of that was random.

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

But I also feel that no matter what is planned out, a little or a lot, the main thing is that we can always choose. We may find it more difficult to make better choices in some lifetimes or some circumstances...but even so, if we want to do so, then it can be done and often it is. We can struggle, and we can take hard decisions that require we do was is right and not what is easy. We can manifest love and support rather than anger or violence or cruelty. And in those quiet moments, we soar.

No doubt some of what occurs was agreed on, no doubt some was not. Above all, your intent, thought, word and deed were yours to choose and to share in any situation. So you get some points for rising to your better self with those you agreed to meet/cross paths with and to love and support accordingly. And you also get some points for dealing kindly and fairly with those you've tangentially met or crossed paths with throughout your lives.

I can't do much else but completely agree with all of that. We have the Free Will to choose our experiences and from there create our own realities, the difference between something to help us grow and a so-called negative experience. There was a wonderful phrase that I picked up on many years ago, it was the title of a book if I remember - "Turning Hurts Into Halos."

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

I feel that it's not all random but that neither is everything tightly planned out. I feel there is and always must be room to breathe and to choose, or else, I feel that this experience is contrived and meaningless, in truth. And because I feel it is very meaningful, I do believe in that critical element of choice. I feel that the crux of our growth as souls is directly tied to these choices we make and to the intentions that go along with our thoughts, words, and deeds. It's in these choices taken (and in our reflections had) that we forge the mettle of our soul in this eternal now moment. The effects of our choices are thus eternal and cumulative, and are not bound to any one lifetime.

The feedback loop is that, as we forge our soul with our choices and with our reflections, then over time, our intentions and thoughts will tend to align more truly with our centre. This will strengthen the heart centre and will tend to encourage right action with less struggle. These inner struggles are arguably the most difficult aspects of our existence, if we are lucky enough to have food, shelter, and good health.

I like to keep things as simple as possible. We're all going to 'get there' and of all this 'there is no time' stuff is to be believed we are already there. I can't help but wonder if the barrier to really understanding this is our perception of time more than anything else. But anyway..... We are going to get there, it's the question of how we're going to get there that's the mystery - and that's where the 'randomness' comes in. It's also up to us.


I wouldn't say randomness doesn't happen, because there have been so many occasions where - looking back - events have seemed to have been a bit random yet there was so much 'divine intervention' that happened. I'd like to think that we're going to get there either because of or despite ourselves, and that we're going to achieve what we've set out to do anyway.


I wondered what I might think if I was to find myself in heaven and Spirit said "OK Greeny-baby. You can do it all over again but this time you can choose to change things - anything you want. Whatcha gonna do?" I'd do it all again, just the way it was. I'd make the same agreements, forget I'd made the agreements and had everything just the same. I think this is the understanding and when my brain can't compute the randomness, what I can't compute is something that contradicts that understanding. I would do it all again, all of it, if it meant the same things happened again.


You see, what I really can't figure out is that with everything Spirit is cracked up to be - collective consciousness, Akashic Records, all of time happening right now.... how anything can be random, because wouldn't everything be known to have happened anyway?



It would strengthen the heart centre, because if we knew what was going to happen we'd do it all anyway. We'd go through those inner difficulties as humans because it's simply not possible as Spirit, and we'd do it because we Love ourselves and others.

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

But who's to say? There are many paths to God, many paths to centre.

We get to say, in our own realities but the real question isn't one of who is right or wrong, it's who is the honest Seeker? What matters, what is truth? Our experiences have no inherent meaning of their own - existence itself has no inherent meaning, that's up to us.

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

A tough thing to discuss. But suffice it to say that in many cases, abuse is not agreed upon. Rather, it is an outcome of living amongst an emotionally and spiritually primitive or infantile humanity. Imagine if infants and toddlers ruled the world with sticks and stones and could break your bones whilst having one of those frequent tantrums or bully sessions? Well, that's about right. And I think we're agreed that egregious abuse is often not of your soul group.

But, then again, I also know if you've loads of unresolved karma, then that might be exactly the reason you're getting murdered or what have ye, despite not signing onto that bit when you agreed to meet up. Yet if it's close soul family, you do want to resolve it and I don't know of anything except authentic love that will get you there. If it's not close soul family, then for my part, I think you can often choose to just let it go in general lovingkindness, forgive them, and be done with it, in most cases. If they wanted to offer reconciliation at some later point, a "random act" of kindness would certainly suffice.

When I pop my clogs I'll have all the answers I need, until then all I have is my own perception. Perhaps the karma will be resolved then, I don't know but I'd like it to be.

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

So...that's very respectable and all, for certain. But I was more interested in what you were doing off hours and why they would want to stab you. It's not morbid curiosity, just curiosity (LOL). I wanted to hear you say before I shared more :)

It's a long story that began in a time before time, prior to the Big Bang. I had a long history with an adversarial woman who I was essentially at war with for many years, she was the key figure in starting a war and I was one of the key figures in trying to stop it. One of the reasons Atlantis fell was because of the battle of good versus evil essentially. What the energy grids did was to help those that came here anchor into this third dimension at least for a time, so that they were able to do their tasks. I really don't pretend to understand all the physics of it but it allowed certain beings from the higher dimensions to resonate at third-dimensional frequencies. While it worked well it was a victim of its own success, and some higher beings lost their connections to their higher dimensional selves and became engrossed into this dimension more fully. The rest of the story is pretty much well known. Fr me it was a simple Life back then, I had my family and my job, and some good friends. I took the joy of the simple Life so there's not much to tell really.

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Again, very hard to read this bit. Very disturbing. So sorry for her troubles.

When I first read this bit, I thought that it was a terribly brutal deal. Then I thought that I myself couldn't have signed onto such a deal because it guarantees others suffer your loss. Yet, I've died early all other lives and I know others did feel abandoned. Next, I would feel suffocated by such an iron-clad deal...and would be repelled and turned off if someone else said they were "compelled" to do this or that I had compelled them somehow, because that is obvious codespeak for resentment and for fear and loathing -- all of which I would want no part of. And yet, you and Mrs G appear to treasure one another as souls and as people...her extreme arrangement has not put you off one another or caused any resentment...which to me is a beautiful thing. Resentment and loathing from your closest soul family, particularly over many lifetimes, can eventually induce a soul stigma, a truly caustic form of shame. Hard to cast off and set right without a direct touch, a direct address, an authentic love, a sincere reconciliation. Anyway, I died early in every prior lifetime, mostly violently. And the same goes for many, many others regarding past lives. So even without a disturbing agreement to suffer and die, obviously it can and often will happen anyway, more or less predictably so in many times and places.

Not that either of you would ever say or even feel any of those things, because you are at a different place with it all surely. You have been there for one another till you both got old in many lifetimes, which surely builds a process for mutually contributing to trust and regard and maturity in relationship. However, most of humanity are not with a close soul family member as a partner, most have had several violent past lives, and many have never lived peacefully with a truly beloved partner into old age in past lives. So for many reasons, your partnership with Mrs G is unusual, and so perhaps it's even harder for most of us to make sense out of her rather brutal arrangement. But then again, as I said, there are so many paths to God.

And if you and Mrs G have the mutual, deep, and resonant lovingkindness of close soul family, then who are we to say? TBH I never made it into old age before...and so I lost my children one way or the other in my other lives as women. For certain, from where I sit, I would have loved to have got old in any of those lives. And without a doubt, I felt blessed to have the love and support day-to-day on the ground from my close soul family in any form -- whether family, parent, child, beloved friend, mentor, partner, whomever. It just always ended too soon.

The key to understanding is to understand what was happening to Mrs G immediately after our son died. She went completely off the rails and wasn't a nice person at all, and murder and torture were hear constant playthings. The Love we had for each other then was.... pretty overwhelming sometimes, and although the agreement was her only way to be with me because if she had carried on down her destructive Path there would have been no room for her in mine. She's never vocalised it but I think she took the option as a way of redemption as she saw it.


I've died violently or at least not in the most pleasant of circumstances a few times, but 'early' wasn't a word that I'd use there. I've been told that I'll die in my sleep and that'll be fine, because the only thing that was worrying me was not about dying but about how I would meet it. I guess I was given a glimpse of that both in when I was rushed to hospital and in the very short but very long moments before the car crash. Dying is a fact of Life and if there is any randomness to experiences I'd think that dying would be one of those in which we were given a choice. Dying is pretty Life-changing and I can't come to terms with the thought that it's something that - if we have any choice at all - we would leave to random chance.


In certain circumstances the consciousness can protect itself by 'disconnecting' from traumatic events, because that's happened to me a few times. I've been conscious of being somewhere other than in my body when scary things have been happening - and it wasn't the mind going into 'protection mode' neither. Perhaps if you are remembering those violent deaths I'd guess there's a reason for that, maybe there's an understanding there for you. I'm a believer in things happening for a reason. Spiritually we're a work in progress and I've gained some pretty amazing insights with the couple of times I've been handed the very real threat of my own mortality on a plate. However I come to an end - timely or untimely - I know I'm ready for it, that my time has come and I can choose to wipe the slate clean. I'll also go out knowing I've made a difference, and for me that's a fitting way to end the Journey in this plane of existence in readiness for what's to come in the next.

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

I think that's wise...things are always changing. And this way, what you did is on you and it's a result of what you thought or felt was right for you at that time.

Expectaions and pre-conceptions just get in the way anyway, and really there's no way of knowing how you're going to experience something until you are experiencing it.

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Well G here's to you and Mrs G surviving some narrow escapes and enjoying the well-deserved fruits of your labours And here's to many more years for the both of you!

Peace & blessings
7L

There's a Scottish toast I'd like to share with you, 7L, at least in sentiment.


"Here's tae us
What's like us?
Damned few and they're aw deid."

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Thank you

You heart is racing at 220 beats per minute, your skin is cold and clammy and your chest feels as though there's an inflating balloon inside it. You can hardly see straight and your head feels as though it's swimming through wet concrete. Your heart is dangling by a thread and swinging about inside your ribcage and you're totally helpless. You're waiting for the ambulance and your wife has a look on her face as if she's resigned herself to this being the beginning of the end. You're debating with yourself about this experience being a lesson or negative karma?

I think it's easy to sit in a nice chair and debate matters such as this, but when 'real Life' takes a bite of our backsides where does our Spirituality go? Are we going to put our money where our Spiritual mouth is?

People are just people, man.

Yeah.. it’s very easy to believe and also conjure up all sorts of elaborate explanations for why bad things happen, but in the end it seems something that we can’t escape. I could even argue that humans are way more moral than ‘God’, who could be viewed as imperfect by allowing every manner of suffering imaginable possible. Mankind would do well to seek physical immortality, if not as a big FY than just as a way to show the errors in pop spiritual thinking, haha..

I think a lot of people do keep their “faith” though, GreenSlade, even when stuff like you describe happens, although it’s totally understandable if people lose “faith”. I’m not much of a faith guy myself, everything is action and consequence, and using past lives or future lives isn’t my cup of tea for justifying the present (although it’s probably true to some extent it’s also incredibly speculative and subjective)..

[EdmundJohnstone]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

It's not actually known how far back Spirituality goes, although there are theories. We have a God gene that predisposes us to Spiritual experiences, and there is the theory of the Stoned Ape who munched on something and had a mystical experience. What is known is that cavemen - sorry cave people - were Spiritual in their own way and even practised the law of attraction.

It's looking very like it.

Is there a way to switch the God gene back on?

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I guess there had to be a reason why you picked on me. Where are you?

Cheers, I am from Bearsden, a small town near Glasgow. I think I picked on from the slang

I watched the movie What Dreams May Come, it was very emotional.

So, if I understood correctly, even if someone wishes not to exist after death, saying that it will be boring and wants eternal oblivion upon death, they will still exist right? Like even if they want to cease existing, they won't, right? That's good to hear.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

The argument is going to rage for centuries yet I think and still not be closer to an answer. The question is what are you looking for?

I just want to rest assured that when we die, that's not the end as in oblivion and that we will meet our loved ones.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by EdmundJohnstone

I just want to rest assured that when we die, that's not the end as in oblivion and that we will meet our loved ones.

Edmund..
Sorry for bumping in like this but rest assured ‘death’ is not the end. We absolutely do have other layers to our being, that are not physical. What happens and where we go is up for grabs and probably very subjective. What people with NDEs experience is very subjective too and no fixed script for us to hold onto. Unless you are there, after your body ceases to function, in whatever unique way you will undergo the experience of an ‘afterlife’, it’s pretty much a moot thing to read about what other people claim and believe..

All I can say to anyone wondering is just do regular spiritual practice to know you’re spiritual but also realize most elaborate belief systems concerning the afterlife and fancy explanations for suffering are just speculation. We can all keep it very simple by doing sadhana (meditation, for instance) and living ethically to the best of our capacities, and just screw all the fancy spiritual beliefs and realize it’s speculative..