What will happen to the materialistic non-believers?

Originally Posted by Anala

One of my favorites; "What Dreams May Come" starring Robin Williams. I have not watched it in forever. I will have to try it from my present perspective.

It's one of those that has the same depths as seen as a 'sidestep', and I'd be interested to hear what you make of it.

Originally Posted by janielee

I don't put "so much stock" Greenslade, I just know an honest man or woman when I see or hear one as it pertains to Ultimate Truth.

Blessings and be well.

JL

And You Janie, safe Journey.

[EdmundJohnstone]

Hello Mr. Greenslade,

I don't intend to offend you, am just a bit puzzled so I do apologize in advance.

So are you an atheist but spiritual? Like do you believe we are the souls or everything is bollocks? How do you view the creation of this Universe randomly or from a pantheistic point of view?

Some say if afterlife exists they will get bored and will experience eternal borigness so they just want to cease existing
Most people say that when we die it will be like before being born like : essentially nothing

Why is not a fact yet that we are our souls and that an afterlife exists?

Cheers

Originally Posted by Greenslade

And You Janie, safe Journey.

Thank you GS.
JL

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Hey there 7L

I don't know how long that particular chain had been running, but from what I can glean of my step-father's background he was very much visited by the sins of the father, because his father before him was not a very nice man. Apparently my step-father was the black sheep of the family and was the whipping-boy, and of course I have no doubt that in so many ways this laid the path on which I would tread later. So yes, I was a shell and someone to abuse. We hurt others because we want them to feel the way they do, they're trying to make us understand how they feel inside. I'm not entirely sure that's true but what I am sure about is that people like that have 'something missing' inside, they have a lack.

My mother often said that I was more mature than he was, yet t the same time he was very capable and could display a great deal of loving. I remember when I had bronchitis so badly that it almost killed me he stayed with me and for the worst of it. Even as a child I was very intuitive, and saw something in his eyes that I couldn't quite make out. Sometimes it looked as though he knew he had no control over his actions and there was a pleading in his eyes.

Many years later he'd heard that I was back in town after my having been in the Air Force. My brother said that he'd asked to see me and would understand if I didn't want to go. I never went and it's something I regret if there is anything, because I have questions that will never be answered. The only reason I didn't go was because I wasn't sure of my reasons. I didn't want to out of spite.

I forgave my abuser anyway and moved on, and from that moment everything changed. Literally from that moment. There are so many unanswered questions that will remain so until I pop my clogs.

My father was killed just before I was born and the reason I was given my a few people (a couple of them mediums) was that it was his sacrifice so I could have my own Life. Personally I think that's only part of the story because it feels as though there are forwards-in-time reasons too. I've been told that my father and I would have been at loggerheads if he'd been alive because of a clash of personalities, and I doubt that would have been good for my mother as well.

Greenslade, I can appreciate all you say, particularly the intergenerational transmission of abuse from your stepdad. Very possibly you'd have disliked your dad as well if you experienced him mistreating your mum or you, and so forth. There is a lack at core in those situations, agreed, and it is widely occurring amongst humanity as a whole. Widely occurring. For every one or two who turn away from the abuse, there is another who pays the abuse forward. And, additionally, there are the iniquities and the karma we each bring forward, as well. But IMO the vast majority of what we experience is not pre-agreed. Only that we agree to live with or meet up with some folks and perhaps to cross paths with some others.

Things turned out the way they did in my Life and here we are. Because of my experiences I have been able to affect Lives to the good, and I'm grateful I've been in that position. However, I am just as aware that I was able to do that because of my past experiences, and if it hadn't been for the abuse (amongst other things) I wouldn't have been a very nice person, and not the one to help those people.

I am not going to say that you don't know better for you. And I think it's great that you took lemons and made some lemonade...for I do think that is the reason we come to places like earth amongst humanity today and as it's been for much of human history on earth -- to make lemonade amidst the sea of lemons that comprises so much of humanity, whilst also working on our own unique karma, all told a huge challenge.

I can understand your perspective that there will be random traumas too, but the major traumas? Those are life-changing and it could mean the difference between someone fulfilling their Life's Purpose or not. It doesn't sit right with me, being honest, because it smacks of failure and if we have made agreements with a Soul Group for instance, then might that not affect the Groups Purpose? The other issue I have is that as Spirit we have access to the collective consciousness and Akashic Records, yet there are random traumas that happen in our Lives that we don't see coming as Spirit?

I see it more in terms of temporal karma, and also of proximate and foundational karma. Or, rather, temporal connections, and also proximate and foundational ones.

With the foundational and proximate ones -- our close soul family -- we are so deeply connected over many lifetimes that (as with you and Mrs G), we will always be there in one way or another. Here, even if there is much to overcome, the soul craves healing and reconciliation in these connections. Here, regardless of what relationship it is in any one lifetime (family, friend, partner, mentor, etc), I reckon we have fulfilled our life's purpose if we come to better authentically love ourselves and one another. To better seek one another's highest good equally to our own.

And how is this done? It is done by coming to better know and love one another and people and as beloved friends & family. To truly be present, to better listen and regard with love, honour, respect, and admiration. We don't have to have it all mapped out as I see it. Rather there is a kenning with regard to whether we are moving closer to authentic love (in being and doing) and regard for one another, or whether we are moving away from it.

However, for many temporal relationships where we have few or no prior lifetimes, I think much more of it is unplanned and more under the influence of the current state of humanity and one's society. Though of course who's to say if all of it is unplanned?

As Spirit we are Unconditional Love, is it too far from our human sensibilities to think that we can make the sacrifice so that we can be a part of their being able to work through their karmic poo? How many women especially stay with abusive husbands for the sake of their children? How many know that they put their very Lives in danger every time they say a single word to a husband yet they stay with him? People give up their Lives to care for parents or children who have terminal medical issues so for me it's not too much of a stretch to think that Spirit might do the very same when agreeing their Soul Agreements.

I think this could certainly occur and am loathe to ever say never. But sacrifices occur out of love in many situations regardless if it was pre-planned or not. I did stay with an abusive husband in one lifetime (1st one as a woman). My spirit was broken; I couldn't protect myself or my son, and the abuse drove my son to murder (both of us). Interestingly, I don't feel that I knew the abuser as a soul prior and not certain if I have known him since. It's hard to say since, as I've noted, abuse is and was so ubiquitous, unfortunately. I do recall he was a violent man and he was feared throughout our community.

Mrs G s as Spiritual as I am although she isn't one for the forums, so some of the conversations become quite interesting. In the early days we talked of Past Lives and the people in them. One of the very early Lives we explored was Atlantis, where I was killed in the street. She was left with a son who had a terminal wasting disease and held on until his last breath, after which she committed suicide. In Spirit she made a pact that she she would be with me in every one of my Lives, the conditions she agreed to was that in each Life she would suffer and die before I did. Other than this one, that happened but that was a part of the pact.

So my question is how did those she agreed with know that was going to happen across Lifetimes, how did it happen? And if they knew it was going to happen to her is she some kind of cosmic exception?

Very interesting re: Atlantis...do you recall why were you killed in the street? What was going on there?

As to why Mrs G wanted to or agreed to do this or that in each lifetime, I can only think that it is a very individual thing that only she could answer (or could one day answer). It might be something that might not apply to anyone else in existence, because without knowing her unique karma and journey, I certainly couldn't say why she'd need to or want to make the exact agreement that she recalls she did.

I had a waking vision one day. I was walking down a corridor and being led towards a room at the end of the corridor. Standing by what looked like a large, stone map table was a light being - my Higher Self. He beckoned me over and showed me the map, pointing to specific points on the map and explaining what was going on. For some reason I couldn't hear the words clearly, but the gist was the HS was showing me the thread of my Life from birth onwards. He began with my birth and the line had specific points from there. He showed me part of the timeline where I had been abused and where other significant events had happened. As he pointed out Life into the future the vision faded, I guess I wasn't supposed to know what was going to happen but HS had everything up to the point of my death marked out.

It all felt so real and to be honest having an agreed Life's Purpose is the only explanation that resonates with me, and it resonates very deeply. However, what I am aware of at the same time is that I might well be looking for some form of sanity in the madness of it all.

I don't assume, I am either as sure as I can be or I ask questions - or admit I can't make any sense out of it. What I know I know, and it resonates me but at the same time there are things which don't resonate at all.

G, I think it has to do with you being given insight into who you are at core. Your higher self is just who you are at centre, where you are most fully, deeply, and truly aligned with self and Self. So, from your fully aligned centre, this particular course of events was most likely at the time. Still, you've free will and you change over time and take new decisions all the time, as we all do, so nothing is set till it's done. Equally, you need to know that your decisions matter, for they absolutely do. They work to separate the kernel of your character from the chaff, and this absolutely imprints upon the universe. That's why the future "went away".

Mrs G's husband has been with her over a few Lifetimes and we've explored that quite extensively. I think that often Souls take on their own mantles in different Lives yet the Soul inside never really changes, and the difference can be perceived by someone discerning enough. Perhaps we don't like them, but we can still tell that the Soul is an old friend just the same. It's in this vein that Mrs G's husband appears, because he has been the protagonist in a few of her Lifetimes and has been the cause of her demise more than once. The feeling I've always had with him is the role of assasin that has been sent to do the bidding of those she made the pact with, if that was the agreement she'd made then the dirty deed would need to be carried out by someone.

This struck me as very sad and I don't pretend to understand all you've said regarding Mrs G's arrangements. IMO it would normally be unhealed karma between them causing him to repeatedly end up doing her harm, but who's to say and who's to say if they are even close soul family? Because if they're not, of course the karma could be that much more difficult to mend. As the soul resonance is just not that great, meaning, you're just not that close at the soul level and you may not have the motivation to get back around to it anytime soon.

I do know that I am looking forward to one day dying of old age, because I've never got to do that yet. Perhaps this lifetime can be that lifetime for Mrs G as well rather than what's she's experienced in past lives.

Through all the questions and the speculations here we are just he same, and even through various Lifetimes. Just recently I've had a couple of scares where we both thought I was being handed my mortality on a silver platter, and although it's quite a test of your money being where your mouth is Spiritually, it brought her back to that first Life I was killed in, and everything she went through then. She was in floods of tears a few times but she found her strength and it seems to be sustaining her. I know I made the agreement to stay until after she'd gone to spare her the agony, and that hasn't been easy in any Lifetime and that is to come for this one.

That is tough. I was never in that position, where I had to get old without someone I loved in any fashion, whether family, partner, parent, child, any of it. TBH, it's a great gift and blessing to live, to get old, to be missed and to miss another, all of it, I'd say.

Interestingly we had a car smash a few weeks back where a truck pulled into our lane from being stationary in a filter lane, and we were doing 70mph at the time. Even though I have dashcam footage I still can't fathom how it was possible because it defies the laws of physics - none of it makes sense. But we both walked away unscathed, although very shaky for a while afterwards. I guess we have things to do still, and a friend said that God still has work for me to do. While I'm an atheist I can understand the sentiments. It intuitively feels as if I am not quite finished here yet.

Your angels were on the job I'd say

7L, I don't think you can possibly put your fingers to those keys and not give me an insight into your perspective, but being very honest it's actually refreshing and inspirational to talk to someone such as yourself in this way, on this level.

Why thank you kindly Greenslade. I feel like my own example I mentioned earlier may be particularly hard to grasp because it is with very close soul family...where it gets very real and hits very hard because you are completely vulnerable at the soul level and have no barriers in spirit. It feels like it shouldn't even be possible to be so misaligned with your closest soul family whom you love like your own heart, but of course it happens. Till you sort the karma, it is is an enigmatic, incomprehensible tear in the tapestry of the universe. Meanwhile you have to get on with your multiple respective lives till you manage to mutually sort, mend, and turn it to the good at some point in one of those lives. And of course, perhaps those lives won't end well anyway till you do, LOL.

That's why I say, if you get to live then you truly may have rounded the bend and hopefully have made real progress toward authentic love with your closest soul family. Luckily for humanity, authentic love and deep soul resonance between close soul family members do seem to endure no matter what I think that's part of why the archangels are also on hand...they feel compassion for the mess we have made of things and are happy to get involved in our healing and reconciliation .

I used to wonder why I dreaded the whole idea of past lives so much, and why I didn't want to spend time on the snippets I vaguely knew about. It's because it was a bloody mess...yet the love was and is so pure and uncomplicated. Even if things had got complicated some lifetimes. So, I got that it was worth the effort to sort, once I worked up the nerve to go into the past lives. But...for those souls who are not my close soul family, I'd prefer to let it go for the most part & just chalk it up to the vagaries of life on earth at this time, LOL. Even whilst striving to be better toward all. Meaning, I feel there's only so much you can probably do in any one lifetime, even if you've managed to do quite a lot this go round. And that's ok too.

Peace & blessings
7L

Originally Posted by EdmundJohnstone

Hello Mr. Greenslade,

I don't intend to offend you, am just a bit puzzled so I do apologize in advance.

So are you an atheist but spiritual? Like do you believe we are the souls or everything is bollocks? How do you view the creation of this Universe randomly or from a pantheistic point of view?

Some say if afterlife exists they will get bored and will experience eternal borigness so they just want to cease existing
Most people say that when we die it will be like before being born like : essentially nothing

Why is not a fact yet that we are our souls and that an afterlife exists?

Cheers

Hi Edmund. I'm not offended, it's as bad to take offence as it is to give it. Yep, I'm an atheist. I was going to make a bit of a joke there but it would have been in bad taste.



Everybody is Spiritual so really the word has little meaning, at the same time though we still need to use the word to communicate when we talk not of something separate from ourselves but as an aspect of ourselves. I believe we have something that is called a Soul, but what the nature of that is I really don't know. I just don't have God/gods of any kind, not Grumpy SkyDaddy nor Gods of the wind and the trees. I don't view the creation of the Universe from a theist view at all, God/gods is/are a personification of what we don't yet understand, either Spiritually or scientifically. What science says is that matter is emergent of consciousness, so God did create the heavens and the earth and as Tesla said it's all about energy, vibration and frequency.


To my human mind I'd get bored if I was sitting on a fluffy cloud twanging a harp for the rest of eternity, that sounds like hell not heaven. As Spirit though everything would change and I wouldn't have this human perspective of the Universe so who knows how I might perceive it? It might be anything I want it to be.


Even Spiritually we are not our Souls, that's the egoic mind looking to think we are something special by dismissing what it perceives as being non-special - the human aspects of ourselves. Yes it is ironic, several layers of it. Your whole being would be diminished if you didn't have fingers to click your way into the forum, part of which is your Soul. That we have a Soul remains a belief and not a fact, until such time as it can be objectified. Similarly with the Afterlife. This may sound strange but I am a medium and have communicated with those that have passed over. There is something that is called an AfterLife but what is is is anybody's guess. It's certainly not Life as we know it.


We need to be honest enough with ourselves and keep facts and beliefs in their own boxes so we can tell which is which, that way we can free our minds - and our Spirits - to create within the space of mystery and wonder.

[EdmundJohnstone]

Thank you for your reply

[EdmundJohnstone]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Hi Edmund. I'm not offended, it's as bad to take offence as it is to give it.

Cheers, that's wise from you

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Yep, I'm an atheist. I was going to make a bit of a joke there but it would have been in bad taste.

I understood that you don't believe in that Personal Human God

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Everybody is Spiritual so really the word has little meaning

What did you mean by Everybody is Spiritual?

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I just don't have God/gods of any kind, not Grumpy SkyDaddy nor Gods of the wind and the trees. I don't view the creation of the Universe from a theist view at all, God/gods is/are a personification of what we don't yet understand, either Spiritually or scientifically. What science says is that matter is emergent of consciousness, so God did create the heavens and the earth and as Tesla said it's all about energy, vibration and frequency.

Agreed, so is that a pantheistic point of view?
Do you think the Universe was created by accident and we are no more than savages, or that the Universe was created intentionally, like being conscious of the creation?

Originally Posted by Greenslade

To my human mind I'd get bored if I was sitting on a fluffy cloud twanging a harp for the rest of eternity, that sounds like hell not heaven. As Spirit though everything would change and I wouldn't have this human perspective of the Universe so who knows how I might perceive it? It might be anything I want it to be.

I respect your point of view, everyone's opinion is different, that's right.
You know there are living people that say "Oh I will get bored in the afterlife, I had this life and it was enough, and in fact souls and afterlife are no more than mythological human creations". You referenced me to the movie starring Robin Williams. So do you think that regardless of an individual wish was, he or she can still experience an afterlife. Or do you think that if that individual wish was to cease existing after his or her death, his or her wish will be fulfilled?

I guess their best counter-arguments would be:
1)You were nothing before being born so you will be like that after death, and you won't realise that you died, since you don't remember before being born thus you are basically a computer and when brain dies you die as well.
2)There is no proof, no fact of the soul and afterlife and that they are mythological man-made

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Even Spiritually we are not our Souls, that's the egoic mind looking to think we are something special by dismissing what it perceives as being non-special - the human aspects of ourselves. Yes it is ironic, several layers of it. Your whole being would be diminished if you didn't have fingers to click your way into the forum, part of which is your Soul. That we have a Soul remains a belief and not a fact, until such time as it can be objectified. Similarly with the Afterlife. This may sound strange but I am a medium and have communicated with those that have passed over. There is something that is called an AfterLife but what is is is anybody's guess. It's certainly not Life as we know it.

My questions here are: so are we as souls immaterial using this body as a vessel?

Did the people that passed over offer you a glimpse of the afterlife?

Originally Posted by Greenslade

We need to be honest enough with ourselves and keep facts and beliefs in their own boxes so we can tell which is which, that way we can free our minds - and our Spirits - to create within the space of mystery and wonder.

Okay, but do you think if science will eventually discover that we are our souls and this will become fact or became already, will it hide it from the Earth's population? Like would they have any reason to do so?

Originally Posted by EdmundJohnstone

Cheers, that's wise from you

Thank you.

Originally Posted by EdmundJohnstone

I understood that you don't believe in that Personal Human God

Is there any other?

Originally Posted by EdmundJohnstone

What did you mean by Everybody is Spiritual?

What makes you Spiritual and someone else not? Didn't we all come from Spirit originally?

Originally Posted by EdmundJohnstone

Agreed, so is that a pantheistic point of view?
Do you think the Universe was created by accident and we are no more than savages, or that the Universe was created intentionally, like being conscious of the creation?

It's a point of view that has no God/gods.


Matter is emergent of consciousness, which both Spirituality and science will tell you so creation was a creation of consciousness. First there was consciousness, then there is what we become conscious of.

Originally Posted by EdmundJohnstone

I respect your point of view, everyone's opinion is different, that's right.
You know there are living people that say "Oh I will get bored in the afterlife, I had this life and it was enough, and in fact souls and afterlife are no more than mythological human creations". You referenced me to the movie starring Robin Williams. So do you think that regardless of an individual wish was, he or she can still experience an afterlife. Or do you think that if that individual wish was to cease existing after his or her death, his or her wish will be fulfilled?

I guess their best counter-arguments would be:
1)You were nothing before being born so you will be like that after death, and you won't realise that you died, since you don't remember before being born thus you are basically a computer and when brain dies you die as well.
2)There is no proof, no fact of the soul and afterlife and that they are mythological man-made

I come from a small town called Fraserburgh, what are your thoughts? If you went on Google maps you could find the town and even take a street view perspective. How different would your perspective be if you walked its streets? Asking me these questions is you looking at my town in Google maps, you actually being here is the answer.

Originally Posted by EdmundJohnstone

My questions here are: so are we as souls immaterial using this body as a vessel?

Did the people that passed over offer you a glimpse of the afterlife?

It depends on what you choose to believe. The body is necessary to get around in this plane of existence - if you were just pure consciousness you wouldn't be in this conversation. Some believe we don't have a Soul. There are no definitive answers really.


When the afterlife is anything you want it to be, how can anyone possibly give you a glimpse?

Originally Posted by EdmundJohnstone

Okay, but do you think if science will eventually discover that we are our souls and this will become fact or became already, will it hide it from the Earth's population? Like would they have any reason to do so?

At the moment there is a huge gulf between science and Spirituality, and being in a Spiritual forum makes this conversation worse because Spiritual people tend to be dismissive of anything not defined as Spiritual. I think that come time science will explain what our Souls are much to the disdain of Spirituality, but Spirituality will remain confined in dogma.


There are so many truths that have been hidden because of... any number of reasons. And the best form of hiding something is by it being ignored.

[EdmundJohnstone]

Cheers for the answer.