Reincarnations Do we have a Choice ?

Originally Posted by Greenslade

That's the one, Curious. It must have been somewhere around '86 or '87 when I read it, even the title seemed to resonate at the time.

Why don't we need to be anything in particular? I don't believe we do, although many people will disagree. "Not all those who wander are lost", as the man says. Stealing a concept from Douglas Adams (brilliant stuff, you guys should read it) explains much of what you've asked. In a very nutshell, they built a computer called Deep Thought to work out the answer to Life, the Universe and everything. After a few million years it came up with the answer "42". Well, it didn't understand the question in the first place. But if the answer was 42, what was the question? So the white mice commissioned the Mageratheans to build Planet Earth and run a six million year programme to find the answer. Just before the young lady in the cafe in Islington could come up with the answer, the Vogon Constructor Fleet demolished the earth to make way for a hyperspatial bypass. Hands up all of you who said "What???"

My favorite quote from that series: "Most of the people living on it (the Earth) were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small, green pieces of paper, which is odd, because on the whole, it wasn’t the small, green pieces of paper which were unhappy."

Originally Posted by Greenslade

And therein lies the answer. We already have the answer right in front of us. We are the answer, you are the answer. Now here's the question - what is the question?

I'm not sure it's enough to simply know evil is there. We all have our dark sides as much as many would like to have it buried away somewhere and never admit its existence. But then, that's assuming you proscribe to there being good and bad - which I don't. I believe that good and bad are human judgements, our perspectives on experiences. Good and bad are not as sharply defined as many would like to think - and the same goes for good and evil. For some it may be enough to only acknowledge the dark exists, but does that then reflect on their understanding and appreciation of the Light? I would say it would, but then each to their own. Letting off steam is much more beneficial after a bad day at work than it is after a good day.

Since I am in quote tossing mood, here's another, this time from the Immortal Bard. "There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so."

CS

makes me wonder, if you do choose, why do people choose to be ugly?, or born in poor or wortorn countries? or why would you choose to be born with terminal illness? or disability?


I've always had a thought that these could maybe be punishments for bad things you did in a previous life? who knows. this world could actually be the hell so many christian god followers are afraid of.

[Internal Queries]

Originally Posted by WhiteDevil

makes me wonder, if you do choose, why do people choose to be ugly?, or born in poor or wortorn countries? or why would you choose to be born with terminal illness? or disability?


I've always had a thought that these could maybe be punishments for bad things you did in a previous life? who knows. this world could actually be the hell so many christian god followers are afraid of.

i don't believe that we choose. i imagine that the Universe creates spontaneously from and with vibration and we merely manifest as the Universe vibrates into matter the variations on the theme of "human" (and everything else). we are no different than flowers, cave crystals or stars. flowers, crystals and stars don't choose and they aren't formed as punishment or reward.

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

i don't believe that we choose. i imagine that the Universe creates spontaneously from and with vibration and we merely manifest as the Universe vibrates into matter the variations on the theme of "human" (and everything else). we are no different than flowers, cave crystals or stars. flowers, crystals and stars don't choose and they aren't formed as punishment or reward.

The whole thrust of the physical experience is to experience in third dimension what we are limited to experiencing in the planes outside of 3D. In other words through the five senses: touch, taste, smell, hear and see can we fully manifest the expression of ourselves, just as nature fully manifests the expression of itself in everything we see all around us in the objective world. This is not limited to just a sight experience but involves the ability to experience every aspect of nature. We can touch, taste, feel, hear and smell the many attributes of nature.

Now, this discussion so far has to some degree put the need for a physical experience in the objective world in perspective but there is far more to the story. Next in the chronological order of this discussion comes describing the reasons for physicality outside of the sensory experience.

The whole of the physical experience was for the purpose of enhancing consciousness, individually and collectively. There was a time way back in the history of civilization (not necessarily ours) when man, descending upon the plane of the earth, was fully conscious of his entire being: body, soul and mind. That is, man was connected to his soul-mind, his Higher Mind, a Christian example is the story of Adam and Eve. But over the course of time all down through the age’s man began to lose touch with his inner self as he learned to become more and more reliant on his senses and the sensory pleasures. As man moved further and further away from his super-intelligence the race as a whole suffered the results of cause and effect. Instead of moving along man’s natural progression of evolution, man went backwards and stalled the evolutionary race as a whole. In some cases entire races became extinct or were scattered across the lands becoming either new races or meshing into other existing races.

Now, at this point if you dare to disagree just take a look around you to see the state of our current affairs in all manners of speaking which speaks for itself. Also, do bear in mind that this discussion is an abbreviated synopsis of the events that occurred. Such discussion would require a book – a feat others have already taken on. The important point of this discussion is that while man was busy going backwards in his evolutionary process he was affecting the race as a whole which has, thus, required many incarnations.

So, in other words, yes we do chose to experience consciousness on earth in all of its many human forms. We are indeed in a vibratory state but not spontaniously created in that sense. We are infinite spiritual consciousness, we select what and how we wish to experience this human reality.

[Internal Queries]

So, in other words, yes we do chose to experience consciousness on earth in all of its many human forms. We are indeed in a vibratory state but not spontaniously created in that sense. We are infinite spiritual consciousness, we select what and how we wish to experience this human reality.

that is your belief and i suppose it provides you with some sense of control. i, however, do not believe as you do. i do believe that the vibrations from which we manifest are eternal, the variations of them being infinite and the continuous exploration of vibrational variables is the reason why it appears that we reincarnate. IMO, you are no more in control of how you manifest as selfhood than is a worm or a comet. it is my belief that you spontaneously manifest as the Universal vibration creates you, the conclusions you draw within the context of your belief system being part of that spontaneous manifestation.

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

that is your belief and i suppose it provides you with some sense of control. i, however, do not believe as you do. i do believe that the vibrations from which we manifest are eternal, the variations of them being infinite and the continuous exploration of vibrational variables is the reason why it appears that we reincarnate. IMO, you are no more in control of how you manifest as selfhood than is a worm or a comet. it is my belief that you spontaneously manifest as the Universal vibration creates you, the conclusions you draw within the context of your belief system being part of that spontaneous manifestation.

There are of course many who believe as I do. However it is simple to agree to disagree. I will of course look into your belief as I havn't heard of such. I'm not concerned with control just my incarnation, my path that I have chosen. All those case studies I've read on reincarnation were lies? Edgar Cayce lied to us, oh my!! All of the spirit guides and teachers just make this stuff up? My years of study and research down the toilet, a 5.000 word thesis on reincarnation for my masters degree all lies. This is more than I can stand. My 10,000 word dissertaton in progress for my Ph.D. on consciousness all for naught. My Doctorate in metaphysical counseling down the tubes. Sorry but I really don't buy it.

I do believe that I'd rather come back as a comet as opposed to a worm. I'm sure if I were the worm, someone would take me fishing with them.

[Internal Queries]

Originally Posted by Baldr44

There are of course many who believe as I do. However it is simple to agree to disagree. I will of course look into your belief as I havn't heard of such. I'm not concerned with control just my incarnation, my path that I have chosen.

I do believe that I'd rather come back as a comet as opposed to a worm. I'm sure if I were the worm, someone would take me fishing with them.

lol well, you can't chose to be a worm or a comet since the vibration from which you manifest isn't vibrating energy for worms or comets or anything else. it's vibrating "human: version Balder44".

the reason you haven't heard of a belief system such as mine is because, as far as i know, there are no ancient holy text, no perfect masters, no books or tapes channelled or new age gurus expressing this perspective, though there are a great many people who express a belief in the "Will of God".

i do not believe in deities so the "Will of God" meme isn't exactly what i'm envisioning, though it's close. strip away the cultural collective ego projection which deities are and you might get an inkling of what i'm "seeing". we can say the Universe is conscious because we can say that we are conscious and so are all other life forms, some more sentient than others. all those life forms are manifesting the infinite variations of the consciousness of the Universe and none can be other than as the specific vibrations manifests them. it's not so much the "Will of God", for pure energy has no ego and no will, but energy/vibration manifests AS consciousness simply because consciousness is a possiblity and all things are possible in "God".

oh and as you're working on your "present" and "future" incarnation(s) ... that is the Universe spontaneously manifesting you working on your "present" and "future" variations. of course, Time isn't always what it seems so concepts of linier manifestations as implied in the reincarnation belief system may be moot.

Originally Posted by Baldr44

My years of study and research down the toilet, a 5.000 word thesis on reincarnation for my masters degree all lies. This is more than I can stand. My 10,000 word dissertaton in progress for my Ph.D. on consciousness all for naught. My Doctorate in metaphysical counseling down the tubes.

You wouldn't have been the first to be wasting time on stuff that likely doesn't matter.. The religious community is loaded with folks who have
wasted a lifetime on provably misleading imagery via texts that are based on absolute forgery.

My recommendation is to let go and just be... study the life that surrounds you and integrate with your love ones in a way that's mutually beneficial.

The Moment you Die.... so much of what confuses us about the "other side" will be made instantly clear within the context of our greater being... we
simply don't have the tools on this side to legitimately bridge that gap...

I've finally concluded that this life is essentially about feeling around in the dark in order to find love via fresh ways that are uniquely customizable to each individuals experience.

When you "study" what others are saying you are mostly being exposed to an angle that they've created for themselves... and it's limited to their
current views at the time... it likely changed some since they wrote what they were thinking to that point...

A heavily intellectual approach to this study will clearly have us chasing our tail... (certainly did for me for many years!) An intuition based approach
in regards to what's comfortably within our reach is proving to be a far more superior experience in relation to our limited time within this context...

Study of course... but don't commit to the myriad of contradictory beliefs that are so prevalent among those who project what they're thinking...
what a mess we become when we're whipped about by the endless amount of stuff that others keep tossing about callously as though they're absolutes...!

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by StephenK

You wouldn't have been the first to be wasting time on stuff that likely doesn't matter.. The religious community is loaded with folks who have
wasted a lifetime on provably misleading imagery via texts that are based on absolute forgery.

My recommendation is to let go and just be... study the life that surrounds you and integrate with your love ones in a way that's mutually beneficial.

The Moment you Die.... so much of what confuses us about the "other side" will be made instantly clear within the context of our greater being... we
simply don't have the tools on this side to legitimately bridge that gap...

I've finally concluded that this life is essentially about feeling around in the dark in order to find love via fresh ways that are uniquely customizable to each individuals experience.

When you "study" what others are saying you are mostly being exposed to an angle that they've created for themselves... and it's limited to their
current views at the time... it likely changed some since they wrote what they were thinking to that point...

A heavily intellectual approach to this study will clearly have us chasing our tail... (certainly did for me for many years!) An intuition based approach
in regards to what's comfortably within our reach is proving to be a far more superior experience in relation to our limited time within this context...

Study of course... but don't commit to the myriad of contradictory beliefs that are so prevalent among those who project what they're thinking...
what a mess we become when we're whipped about by the endless amount of stuff that others keep tossing about callously as though they're absolutes...!

I really like the bits about love and intuition being foundational.
Though yes I do believe we choose. My own remembrance of my past life...and it is just the "highlights", LOL...seems to bear that out. Instead of being oppressed by society, by religion, by war..I chose a life where I'd have to carve out my own meaning and where I could choose to be myself rather than end up as I did last time (dying young during war).

Even though you take **** in either case, it is **** I've chosen to take (LOL)...so there, ha ha...
Cheers,
7L

[Internal Queries]

All those case studies I've read on reincarnation were lies? Edgar Cayce lied to us, oh my!! All of the spirit guides and teachers just make this stuff up? My years of study and research down the toilet, a 5.000 word thesis on reincarnation for my masters degree all lies. This is more than I can stand. My 10,000 word dissertaton in progress for my Ph.D. on consciousness all for naught. My Doctorate in metaphysical counseling down the tubes. Sorry but I really don't buy it.

oh dear! yikes! unwind your boxers! (((hugs))) you can believe anything you want and no one has lied to anyOne. it's a difference of perspective only. and if you were so inclined to briefly consider my perspective "buyable" you'd find much of what you believe fits fine into the concepts i've put forth. for instance, you can believe that you chose your incarnations and whatever events occur during those lives. no biggy. for your concepts to fit into mine all you'd have to do is recognise is that though you chose your chosing and your choices is the Universe is creating spontanously with vibration, a vibration specific to individual expression of consciousness, which just happens to be you.

you and your choices are the Universe spontaneously creating with vibration. want to be egoless? try that concept on for size.