the darkness

[davidsun]

Very eleoquent statements which logically 'justify' your continuing to be just the way you are, JB, but I reassert my observation/experience about the quality of your relationship to me and what I am about.

Originally Posted by JustBe

I had a vision of heaven on earth, I’m now experiencing and growing through this.

From the chapter I have been quoting the most from:

... in all of the foregoing [enlightenment-and-connection related] regards, as well as others not categorically mentioned: It may take quite a while (possibly more than a lifetime even) for all of the implications of what is thereby realized to be fully absorbed, integrated and functionally implemented in soulful terms. Breakthrough insights along such lines may be extremely impressive, light bulb getting turned on in a previously dark room with the flip of a switch kinds of events, so impressive that said ‘room’ itself, as then seen, may become a “nothing could possibly be ‘better’ than this” kind of logistically self‑reifying, hence soul-growth confining and further spiritual-evolution stopping, belief ‘box’, which not infrequently leads to folks becoming ensconced in grotesquely demoniacal (as seen by anyone who isn’t similarly deluded, that is!) box‑smugness☺ wherefrom they regard and relate to others who don’t live in the same ‘box’ in condescending (hence ultimately Love‑and-Joy-in-relation-to-and-with-others diminishing!) ways. To make sure such an attitude doesn’t ‘infect’ you, especially when and as you hear others reinforcingly describing ‘enlightenment’ experiences similar to yours in ‘glowing’ terms, be sure to always remind yourself of the fact that every soul’s ‘journey’ is unique and that said evolutionary journey never ends. Infinity extends in every direction ...

.

Originally Posted by JustBe

We each can find our own little piece of heaven, ...

I notice the 'big chunk' you laid claim to and spoke of in your last comment to me has now become a 'little piece'? Hmm... I hope this is reflective of some (at least) of my 'output' getting through to you?

Originally Posted by JustBe

because heaven is everywhere in everything. Even as the bad is cast away as you’ve quoted, heaven lays one with it. So where does that leave the one who casts it away?

Go figure. The process of soul growth and development I speak of (in said chapter), which I continue to share snippets of hoping some readers at least will be enticed to 'dig' into it, is an ever-ongrowing, 'infinity in every direction' kind of thang.

Originally Posted by JustBe

Of course I try not to limit the view of heaven in nursery rhymes..but again it will be found if we dig deep enough.

Sure, fella ... if one continues to 'expand' one's awareness and 'deepen' one's involvement, not if one is content to just be as one already is - that's my 'point'.

Please note: I wouldn't be 'retorting' to the things you say if you actually related in to the things I say (I was mainly engaged with running when you butted in) in a way which granted them validity in their 'own' right/way. But, thanks for the opportunity to expound on what I mean and am about further:

Why? Because simply ‘thinking the thought’ and ‘talking the talk’, i.e. just believing and socially affiliating with others who ‘confess’ and ‘proclaim’ their belief that what [they, I was talking about 'Christians' and 'Jesus' when I wrote this] believe] is absolutely true, won’t result in a soul’s psychospiritually realizing the ‘eternally’ ongoing Life he referenced. One has to actually ‘walk the walk’ of self-transcendence by really considering and intelligently (one might say, Solomonically☺) evaluating what most likely will and what most likely won’t [hence the 'casting away' thang ] serve to maximize the experience and expression of Love and Joy in The Flow of Life and then really (i.e. conscientiously!) choosing to do what(ever!) one consequently thinks and feels has the best chance of so serving*–*in other words, not just for one’s own self’s or any other particular self’s or set of selves’ Love and Joy ‘sakes’– as one goes along, for the kind of Life Jesus spoke of to be ‘entered into’ and soulfully ‘lived’ thereafter.

This of course (as previously cautioned) requires that one not become smugly self-assured, by way of thinking and feeling that what(ever) one presently believes encapsulates the totality of the truth in said (or, for that matter, any other) regard, but rather that one tolerate and embrace the kind of uncertainty that accompanies awareness of the fact that there may well be more for one to learn and know and consequently do (or know and do ‘better’!), and hence that one always continue to open‑mind-n-heart-edly consider, evaluate and garner wisdom from what may – based on my own experience, I say will! – in retrospect be seen as having been ‘errors’ of omission and/or commission stemming from one’s not having been completely aware of the relevance of dynamically operational situational factors, which process of learning and development of greater awareness and adeptitude will only continue (over the course of one’s incarnational involvement) if one doesn’t sabotage its potential ever-ongoingness by presumptuously concluding that there is nothing ‘more’ for one to know or that there is no ‘better’ way for one to proceed in order to fully become and completely be self-transcendentally, i.e. holistically, Cosmic‑Spirit aligned. It is only by virtue of proceeding humbly in said regard that further experience of incarnational embodiment (wherein the exigencies of personal limitation and corollary experiences of frustration, pain, loss, etc. associated with self*hood serve as ‘task-masters’ and so, in effect, as ‘teachers’ of self‑transcendence) are eventually rendered passé.

Again, thanks for the stimulus/opportunity to expound on what I think is most important, albeit as you may have gathered from earlier (positive!) comments I made in relation to your process and expression thereof, I appreciate and consider that to have 'merit' too.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by running

do you or have you spent any time doing meditation? and or, what have you done outside of calculations?

My daily life is a kind of meditation, running. Yes, I have spent time and frequently continue to 'do' the kind of 'meditation' I assume you reference, most often these days on waking up while still lying in bed, on long walks, and while lying in bed unhurriedly waiting for sleep.

This (from page 76 of my treatise) may be more 'on point' in answer to what I imagine gives rise to your query, however:

Now, whether they present themselves as being ‘religious’, ‘spiritual’, ‘philosophical’ or just plain ‘psychological’, all psychospiritually oriented wisdom schools and teachers list a hierarchy of goals to aim for as well as advocate specific approaches or methods whereby aspirations in said regards may be functionally actualized as part of their curriculum. Which is well and good for beginning student‑learners, but the fact is that the superordinate Realm (i.e. Reality) of Love and Joy’s Being-n-Doing is far too extensive (besides being ever‑expanding!) for there to be an ‘ultimate’ Love and Joy destiny or ‘best’ Love and Joy path (or set of paths) whereby one may get to any such imagined Love and Joy ‘mountain top’. Though many have historically (often quite productively!) ‘dutifully’ focused on and committed themselves to following ‘leader’ promulgated guidelines and implementing ‘teacher’ provided instructions as well as devoted themselves to supporting group-movements stemming therefrom with Love and Joy related objectives in mind and heart, the iconoclastic truth is that thinking, feeling, believing and acting on such basis, if such modus operandi is strictly persisted in, is bound to end up being just as limiting of the experience and expression of Love and Joy as the ‘artistic’ experience and expression of a would‑be artist* would be (limited) if s/he were to persist in thinking, feeling, believing and operating on the premise that there was a ‘better than all others’ kind of art and, in that case, just one ‘best’ method or ‘best set’ of methods wherewith and whereby s/he could (or, worse, should!) relate to and engage with creative possibilities in any topical regard.

* For what it may be worth to you as potentially contructive feedback, running, your utterances and pronouncements have come across (to me, that is) as tonally stuck repetition/replays of the same 'groove' on an 'old' record.

[davidsun]

Fir anyone who hasnt just decided its best (for them) to just ignore my posts (I can appreciate the logic of folks who aren't intellectually inclined choosing do just that ) the paragraph following the one quoted above reads:

My hope is that the time-space transcendental perspective and associated commentaries pertaining to Life’s worldly Flow presented here [meaning in the treatise] will facilitate folks more wittingly deploying their Love and Joy capabilities in creative conjunction with others around them, whatever their present physiosocial (including any school, line of teachers and/or group affiliation) context, by utilizing their own (unique!) soul’s awareness and motive constellation in furtherance of its (hence also their own) Love and Joy growth-venture aspirations in said context, whatever the parameters and aim‑focus of these may then and there be.

Even so however, any and everyone’s psychospiritual process being so multi-factor determined and fluidly moment-to-moment variable as to only be approximately known, felt and related to (by way of ‘normal’ consciousness and cognition, that is), and what one thinks and feels in relation and response to any given stimulus at any given point pretty much just being a function of one’s history prior to one’s arrival at such point in any case, I more than anything else recommend that you (anyone!) primarily rely on the results of your earnestly praying, that is, of your intentionally desiring and attitudinally expecting, to be shown (by capital ‘M’ Mind) whatever, if anything, you may (presently) not be seeing which it might be better for you to see (‘better’ in terms of leading you in a ‘greater’ Love and Joy Life‑Flow direction), and that you also be sparked and spurred (by capital ‘S’ Spirit) to ‘do’ whatever would be best in that case (‘best’ by virtue of your consequently becoming as Love and Joy Flow-augmenting as you can possibly be in such vein).

The rationale here being (1) that the Reality, or Nature, of (all!) Being-n-Doing is such that every soul ultimately has to ‘find’ its own way to grow and continue to flourish, that is if it is to continue to grow and flourish; and (2) that mentally and emotionally tapping into the capital ‘P’ Power of your (it is ours, really!) supranodal capital ‘S’ Soul is your (anyone’s!) ‘best bet’* in this regard.

Footnote*: It is in relation to actualizing such maximum possible Love and Joy experience and expression that the advice, “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you,” (Matthew 7:7) may be put to the most ‘profitable’ use because it is then focused on ‘activating’ the primary ‘program’ of Life Itself!

Originally Posted by running

a couple nights ago i had a vision of energetic growth. this one was interesting cause there were some strange beings i was merging with in the darkness. like a void of nothingness where everything is dark. but there was feeling of a deep deadness of strong joy. dissolving and sucking up the things into nothingness.

the alien like beings looked like jelly fish. they were like leaches but extracting me into a greater depth of void and joy. it was weird and in the mind sorta spooky. sorta or perhaps very creepy. at the time. but what was really going on from an energetic standpoint was very good.

i dont mention much as often about things other than staying with the topic of the bottom line. bliss and silence. but this was so strange i feel compelled to bring it up.

the power to shape this experince of healing came from a lightening bolt coming down into me. manifesting the experince of complete darkness and alien jelly fish looking beings sucking out whats in me into nothingness.

Hello running,

Just curious if the vision you had unfolded since then in some way for you?

Enjoy!

[running]

Originally Posted by davidsun

My daily life is a kind of meditation, running. Yes, I have spent time and frequently continue to 'do' the kind of 'meditation' I assume you reference, most often these days on waking up while still lying in bed, on long walks, and while lying in bed unhurriedly waiting for sleep.

This (from page 76 of my treatise) may be more 'on point' in answer to what I imagine gives rise to your query, however:

Now, whether they present themselves as being ‘religious’, ‘spiritual’, ‘philosophical’ or just plain ‘psychological’, all psychospiritually oriented wisdom schools and teachers list a hierarchy of goals to aim for as well as advocate specific approaches or methods whereby aspirations in said regards may be functionally actualized as part of their curriculum. Which is well and good for beginning student‑learners, but the fact is that the superordinate Realm (i.e. Reality) of Love and Joy’s Being-n-Doing is far too extensive (besides being ever‑expanding!) for there to be an ‘ultimate’ Love and Joy destiny or ‘best’ Love and Joy path (or set of paths) whereby one may get to any such imagined Love and Joy ‘mountain top’. Though many have historically (often quite productively!) ‘dutifully’ focused on and committed themselves to following ‘leader’ promulgated guidelines and implementing ‘teacher’ provided instructions as well as devoted themselves to supporting group-movements stemming therefrom with Love and Joy related objectives in mind and heart, the iconoclastic truth is that thinking, feeling, believing and acting on such basis, if such modus operandi is strictly persisted in, is bound to end up being just as limiting of the experience and expression of Love and Joy as the ‘artistic’ experience and expression of a would‑be artist* would be (limited) if s/he were to persist in thinking, feeling, believing and operating on the premise that there was a ‘better than all others’ kind of art and, in that case, just one ‘best’ method or ‘best set’ of methods wherewith and whereby s/he could (or, worse, should!) relate to and engage with creative possibilities in any topical regard.

* For what it may be worth to you as potentially contructive feedback, running, your utterances and pronouncements have come across (to me, that is) as tonally stuck repetition/replays of the same 'groove' on an 'old' record.

everybody makes mental calculations. its an important aspect of life. making decisions is a part of life. perhaps we can agree on that. im simply suggesting there is more than what goes on in the mind.

what have you got out of meditation?

the groove of bliss is indeed old. which is why it has the nature and wisdom it does. i am just saying it does exist and is beyond mental calculations.

religious groups have always been about control. that is by design. history doesn't much success. more chaos than success. telling people how they should think and how they should live. while using the idea of god as a tool of motivation has never ended well. perhaps something we can also agree upon.

[Anne]

@ Davidsun, a suggestion for your consideration..

I think your posts would be much better received and you would get more responses by the viewing public if you stopped quoting from your treatise. A blow-horn tends to put people off. You know that, right? Could be better if you respond genuinely, in the moment, without referencing prior text, allowing for other’s opinions, and not to diss them in a fancy way. Just a suggestion.

Thank you running for this thread. I am discovering bliss and silence and don’t mind the darkness particularly.. still learning here ... Thanks again.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Anne

@ Davidsun, a suggestion for your consideration..

I think your posts would be much better received and you would get more responses by the viewing public if you stopped quoting from your treatise. A blow-horn tends to put people off. You know that, right? Could be better if you respond genuinely, in the moment, without referencing prior text, allowing for other’s opinions, and not to diss them in a fancy way. Just a suggestion.

Thank you running for this thread. I am discovering bliss and silence and don’t mind the darkness particularly.. still learning here ... Thanks again.

I’ve already suggested this Anne, not because I see it as horn blowing, but more to recreate and express with awareness of ‘now’.

[running]

Originally Posted by Legrand

Hello running,

Just curious if the vision you had unfolded since then in some way for you?

Enjoy!

what i have found for me is there is typically two different things going on. what i see and what i feel. what i see is jellyfish looking things sucking on me like leaches. but what i feel is them sucking me into them where the depth of god for lack of a better word is much more than myself. hence i wind up becoming more like them from a energetic standpoint. they dissolved me into them to make me more like them. not a jelly fish. but deeper in the depths of joy and silence.

so the way i see it is to trust more what i feel. and not what i see. when it comes to dreams that are offering growth in bliss and silence. in doing so i should grow quicker theoretically. and it has proven so over the years. it took me a long while to come to that understanding. we are programmed to hold our normal senses over what we intuitively feel.

[running]

Originally Posted by Anne

@ Davidsun, a suggestion for your consideration..

I think your posts would be much better received and you would get more responses by the viewing public if you stopped quoting from your treatise. A blow-horn tends to put people off. You know that, right? Could be better if you respond genuinely, in the moment, without referencing prior text, allowing for other’s opinions, and not to diss them in a fancy way. Just a suggestion.

Thank you running for this thread. I am discovering bliss and silence and don’t mind the darkness particularly.. still learning here ... Thanks again.

im very happy your discovering it. thank you for sharing that!

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Very eleoquent statements which logically 'justify' your continuing to be just the way you are, JB, but I reassert my observation/experience about the quality of your relationship to me and what I am about.


From the chapter I have been quoting the most from:

... in all of the foregoing [enlightenment-and-connection related] regards, as well as others not categorically mentioned: It may take quite a while (possibly more than a lifetime even) for all of the implications of what is thereby realized to be fully absorbed, integrated and functionally implemented in soulful terms. Breakthrough insights along such lines may be extremely impressive, light bulb getting turned on in a previously dark room with the flip of a switch kinds of events, so impressive that said ‘room’ itself, as then seen, may become a “nothing could possibly be ‘better’ than this” kind of logistically self‑reifying, hence soul-growth confining and further spiritual-evolution stopping, belief ‘box’, which not infrequently leads to folks becoming ensconced in grotesquely demoniacal (as seen by anyone who isn’t similarly deluded, that is!) box‑smugness☺ wherefrom they regard and relate to others who don’t live in the same ‘box’ in condescending (hence ultimately Love‑and-Joy-in-relation-to-and-with-others diminishing!) ways. To make sure such an attitude doesn’t ‘infect’ you, especially when and as you hear others reinforcingly describing ‘enlightenment’ experiences similar to yours in ‘glowing’ terms, be sure to always remind yourself of the fact that every soul’s ‘journey’ is unique and that said evolutionary journey never ends. Infinity extends in every direction ...

.


I notice the 'big chunk' you laid claim to and spoke of in your last comment to me has now become a 'little piece'? Hmm... I hope this is reflective of some (at least) of my 'output' getting through to you?


Go figure. The process of soul growth and development I speak of (in said chapter), which I continue to share snippets of hoping some readers at least will be enticed to 'dig' into it, is an ever-ongrowing, 'infinity in every direction' kind of thang.


Sure, fella ... if one continues to 'expand' one's awareness and 'deepen' one's involvement, not if one is content to just be as one already is - that's my 'point'.

Please note: I wouldn't be 'retorting' to the things you say if you actually related in to the things I say (I was mainly engaged with running when you butted in) in a way which granted them validity in their 'own' right/way. But, thanks for the opportunity to expound on what I mean and am about further:

Why? Because simply ‘thinking the thought’ and ‘talking the talk’, i.e. just believing and socially affiliating with others who ‘confess’ and ‘proclaim’ their belief that what [they, I was talking about 'Christians' and 'Jesus' when I wrote this] believe] is absolutely true, won’t result in a soul’s psychospiritually realizing the ‘eternally’ ongoing Life he referenced. One has to actually ‘walk the walk’ of self-transcendence by really considering and intelligently (one might say, Solomonically☺) evaluating what most likely will and what most likely won’t [hence the 'casting away' thang ] serve to maximize the experience and expression of Love and Joy in The Flow of Life and then really (i.e. conscientiously!) choosing to do what(ever!) one consequently thinks and feels has the best chance of so serving*–*in other words, not just for one’s own self’s or any other particular self’s or set of selves’ Love and Joy ‘sakes’– as one goes along, for the kind of Life Jesus spoke of to be ‘entered into’ and soulfully ‘lived’ thereafter.

This of course (as previously cautioned) requires that one not become smugly self-assured, by way of thinking and feeling that what(ever) one presently believes encapsulates the totality of the truth in said (or, for that matter, any other) regard, but rather that one tolerate and embrace the kind of uncertainty that accompanies awareness of the fact that there may well be more for one to learn and know and consequently do (or know and do ‘better’!), and hence that one always continue to open‑mind-n-heart-edly consider, evaluate and garner wisdom from what may – based on my own experience, I say will! – in retrospect be seen as having been ‘errors’ of omission and/or commission stemming from one’s not having been completely aware of the relevance of dynamically operational situational factors, which process of learning and development of greater awareness and adeptitude will only continue (over the course of one’s incarnational involvement) if one doesn’t sabotage its potential ever-ongoingness by presumptuously concluding that there is nothing ‘more’ for one to know or that there is no ‘better’ way for one to proceed in order to fully become and completely be self-transcendentally, i.e. holistically, Cosmic‑Spirit aligned. It is only by virtue of proceeding humbly in said regard that further experience of incarnational embodiment (wherein the exigencies of personal limitation and corollary experiences of frustration, pain, loss, etc. associated with self*hood serve as ‘task-masters’ and so, in effect, as ‘teachers’ of self‑transcendence) are eventually rendered passé.

Again, thanks for the stimulus/opportunity to expound on what I think is most important, albeit as you may have gathered from earlier (positive!) comments I made in relation to your process and expression thereof, I appreciate and consider that to have 'merit' too.

Walk ones talk you say.

Become like Jesus you say.

Don’t be smug you say.

Don’t believe you’ve learned all you need to know and get caught up in yourself you say.

Sometimes reading your sharing (especially your treatise) it comes across in ways that contradict the main points your making. Like if you are walking the talk, why would you use certain words like, ‘butted in’ or ‘smug’. It reads like you know, but it’s not coming across as your wise self aware of himself as everything he has written about. It seems like your telling the tales with beliefs it is and will need to be, but not really writing from a deeper realized awareness where your wise self is expressing himself. I would feel it otherwise.

I’m not a fellla by the way.

Beliefs can create missions, you seem to be on one. No beliefs open the mind to participate in life as an open state. It is aware of the direct nature of what is. It is accepting of what is. It understands itself as a ‘big, little piece’ but has no agenda other than connect and speak as one sees. Yes you do this too, but sometimes it does border on ‘not very Christ like’ and your a Christ supporter, so that is why I say this.

Jesus is but one stream of life within the many streams of life we have opportunities to relate to, learn and understand ourselves as, through them. If one is transcending one would also be aware, that Jesus was a portion of much more than what he represented on earth. A very important portion but gosh, he didn’t really have a chance to move beyond just, the surface of his true nature on earth. Fifty more years, I wonder what he might have realized?