can anyone answer this?

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by Jack of Spades

I am an-ex Christian myself, and I would be interested to hear about your process of moving out of Christianity? If you don't feel like putting it in the public, you can PM me if u want. I'd be curious to hear :)



Personally, I find it important to fully recognize both sides of Christianity (or any tradition, for that matter) the good and the bad. There is a lot of great stuff in the Bible that is still important to me, but only by being completely straightforward with myself about the bad stuff I can be free to embrace the good in it.

That is the way I see it. I feel like I gotta be honest and see them both, so I can reject the bad stuff and to be free to embrace, and be inspired by the good. I don't want to just subtly ignore the bad things, or explain my way around them, I want to fully reject it, not to act as if it doesn't exist.

Because of my Christian background it seems like I can not just ditch it completely without losing something of myself in the process. At least for now. So, if I am to keep some of the good elements from it, I think it's important for me to recognize the bad side of it, too, so I don't get caught in the dark side of it while trying to keep the good.

That is the way I want to see the Bible and the Christian tradition. To recognize both the darkness and the goodness in it. As the Bible says:
1.Thess: 5:21 "but test them all; hold on to what is good"
(That is a joke that only ex-Christians get )

I get this.
I do like to express myself here but do not want to offend anyone or be misunderstood. I am not saying that Christianity is bad, indeed, I still refer to the bible, it shows wisdom and knowledge But it seems to me that lots of comments I am reading here are content to not question what has been written in black and white. I have watched the you tube video on "Davidsuns" site. Its very interesting. Take a look.
I am open to listen to peoples views and respect all of them but it seems my own views are looked upon as if I should not be asking questions or questioning what I feel does not make sense.
My stories not that interesting really. I have been from church to church over the years trying to get answers. I have asked everyone to clarify things from fellow congregation, to the Vicar / Pastor / Father etc and have been met with smiles and comments such as "Just trust in God"..."Its not meant like that"..."Its meant differently".....I decided to stop going to church and to study further myself the bible and other beliefs and what I have found is a lot of wonderful things from many areas. I take the negative things on board too (so before anyone says I only want to hear the good, I will clarify this, as I believe the negative often has positivity if read correctly, ) My only problem is with blatant contradictions.
I respect all beliefs, just because I do not believe in something or choose to question does not mean I am condemned. If people are happy not to question then that is their prerogative and I respect that.
Your views do make a lot of sense to me. There are lots of people like us.
Some people may call it A lost soul etc..I laugh at this as I think im a pretty "Clued up" soul (as we say in England).
I don't claim to have all the answers, but I am happy.

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by davidsun

The number and sensibility of the open-minded thoughtful-in-relation-to-Christianity comments in this thread is heart-warming. Thinking some may indeed enjoy reading it, I would like to draw the attention of posters here to a 23 page (freely downloadable pdf ) chapter presenting my non-traditional interpretation of "What Jesus Really Meant" offered in:

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...d.php?t=115032

Thankyou for sharing this. I have watched your youtube video on "What Jesus really meant". You look at things from all angles and have helped further my understanding with your insight and views. Different views on a subject can only ever be good. This is why I do not hold with harsh doctrines as to discuss and share views can only ever be kind and just and good.
Kind Regards

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Starlight

I laugh at this as I think im a pretty "Clued up" soul (as we say in England).

You sound to me like you're well "clued up", too. BTW, my sister lives in Scarborough - if you live there or ever go there, I could/would be happy to provide you with contact info. She's pretty "clued up" so I'm sure the two of you could/would have a grand 'chat' together.

[Jack of Spades]

Originally Posted by Starlight

I get this.
I do like to express myself here but do not want to offend anyone or be misunderstood. I am not saying that Christianity is bad, indeed, I still refer to the bible, it shows wisdom and knowledge But it seems to me that lots of comments I am reading here are content to not question what has been written in black and white. I have watched the you tube video on "Davidsuns" site. Its very interesting. Take a look.
I am open to listen to peoples views and respect all of them but it seems my own views are looked upon as if I should not be asking questions or questioning what I feel does not make sense.
My stories not that interesting really. I have been from church to church over the years trying to get answers. I have asked everyone to clarify things from fellow congregation, to the Vicar / Pastor / Father etc and have been met with smiles and comments such as "Just trust in God"..."Its not meant like that"..."Its meant differently".....I decided to stop going to church and to study further myself the bible and other beliefs and what I have found is a lot of wonderful things from many areas. I take the negative things on board too (so before anyone says I only want to hear the good, I will clarify this, as I believe the negative often has positivity if read correctly, ) My only problem is with blatant contradictions.
I respect all beliefs, just because I do not believe in something or choose to question does not mean I am condemned. If people are happy not to question then that is their prerogative and I respect that.

Okay, so it sounds like your path was a process over the time rather than any big single moment of revelation.

For the record, I think the "You only want to hear the good things" - line is a standard Christian blanket accusation towards people who question things. I don't even take that particular accusation very seriously, as it is clear to me that nobody takes it all seriously, the practicing Christians just are usually not aware of this themselves. There are a lot of mindgames how people justify their own habits of ignoring parts of the Bible while claiming to hold it as the final authority.

As you can probably already tell, this Bible-thing is my pet peeve with Christian culture...

Originally Posted by Starlight

Your views do make a lot of sense to me. There are lots of people like us.
Some people may call it A lost soul etc..I laugh at this as I think im a pretty "Clued up" soul (as we say in England).
I don't claim to have all the answers, but I am happy.

I think our beliefs are similar to everything else in life, they're not meant to stay completely static, but evolve over time, and change with our inner progress. Growth and change are the signs of everything healthy in life, so I think our spirituality and beliefs should be open for change too. I don't see my path of growing out of Christian beliefs as a failure, or a loss, but rather as a natural, healthy progress. It wasn't all fun and easy though, far from it.

Actually most, almost all, ex-Christians I've met are nowadays atheists, with them I share the same past, but not the same present or the same direction. As I haven't known very many people who have evolved from Christianity to some other form of religion/spirituality, I can't really tell from experience if are there many people who are like me out there. It sounds like you've met plenty of them?

[davidsun]

I think the following "parable" - I can't remember where I ran across it - which I included in and am now copy-pasting from the book I wrote in slightly edited form may shed some humor on the fear-related (inspired?) 'sayings' that have been 'pro-claimed' as 'wisdom' on this thread:

"There is an excellent Hindu parable about a great seer who, out of the goodness of his heart, informed birds of all species about a terrible bird-catcher and warned them to beware because, sooner or later, the bird-catcher was bound to try and catch them. Not really up to the task of keeping close track of and publicly declaring the many clever ways in which the bird-catcher dis*guised himself, fooling themselves and others that they were adequately doing their duty, the parrots in the group diligently ‘served’ to pass on the warning, 'Watch out for the bird-catcher,' from generation to generation. The wily bird-catcher found this quite to his liking since all he had to do was set up his nets and yell 'I see the bird-catcher coming!' while pointing away from them. Birds galore would then fly right into his trap. Needless to say, instead of preying upon the 'parrots' themselves, the bird-catcher would place those he caught in prominence positions to make sure that other, less 'verbally' skillful 'birds' would hear their/his ‘message’."



So as not to be 'guilty' of catching any 'parrots' or helping others to do so myself, I also added this cautionary note: "Note: even this parable, but of course minus the gist of this last sentence, has been used to ‘catch’ flocks gullible enough to think that a person telling such a wise story must necessarily be doing so to ‘save’ them."

Fear and gang-mentality are a 'devil'ishly wily 'bug'gers - or, you could say, 'hell'ish spiritual-blood 'brothers - the kind of 'hell' being referenced being the one where the 'in'-'mates' delusionally think and believe their 'hell' is 'heaven' , of course.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Jack of Spades

Actually most, almost all, ex-Christians I've met are nowadays atheists, with them I share the same past, but not the same present or the same direction. As I haven't known very many people who have evolved from Christianity to some other form of religion/spirituality, I can't really tell from experience if are there many people who are like me out there. It sounds like you've met plenty of them?

'Atheism' is often a 'stepping stone' along the way via which initially 'naive' religious folk evolve to a 'higher' kind of religiosity - assuming they have a 'keen' sense of morality that is - those who are 'moral' slouches end up 'ditching' Life either way.

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by davidsun

I think the following "parable" - I can't remember where I ran across it - which I included in and am now copy-pasting from the book I wrote in slightly edited form may shed some humor on the fear-related (inspired?) 'sayings' that have been 'pro-claimed' as 'wisdom' on this thread:

"There is an excellent Hindu parable about a great seer who, out of the goodness of his heart, informed birds of all species about a terrible bird-catcher and warned them to beware because, sooner or later, the bird-catcher was bound to try and catch them. Not really up to the task of keeping close track of and publicly declaring the many clever ways in which the bird-catcher dis*guised himself, fooling themselves and others that they were adequately doing their duty, the parrots in the group diligently ‘served’ to pass on the warning, 'Watch out for the bird-catcher,' from generation to generation. The wily bird-catcher found this quite to his liking since all he had to do was set up his nets and yell 'I see the bird-catcher coming!' while pointing away from them. Birds galore would then fly right into his trap. Needless to say, instead of preying upon the 'parrots' themselves, the bird-catcher would place those he caught in prominence positions to make sure that other, less 'verbally' skillful 'birds' would hear their/his ‘message’."



So as not to be 'guilty' of catching any 'parrots' or helping others to do so myself, I also added this cautionary note: "Note: even this parable, but of course minus the gist of this last sentence, has been used to ‘catch’ flocks gullible enough to think that a person telling such a wise story must necessarily be doing so to ‘save’ them."

Fear and gang-mentality are a 'devil'ishly wily 'bug'gers - or, you could say, 'hell'ish spiritual-blood 'brothers - the kind of 'hell' being referenced being the one where the 'in'-'mates' delusionally think and believe their 'hell' is 'heaven' , of course.

Wonderfully put I would say. I think you would like to read a book called "Zen Flesh Zen Bones" a book of inspirational little wisdoms that I find extremely knowledgeable. Type into Google "Angry man spits at the Buddah" this is similar to the book and quite moving.

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by davidsun

You sound to me like you're well "clued up", too. BTW, my sister lives in Scarborough - if you live there or ever go there, I could/would be happy to provide you with contact info. She's pretty "clued up" so I'm sure the two of you could/would have a grand 'chat' together.

I wish I had all the answers but I dont, I am always learning. I would love to have a chat with your sister on here or email. I dont live in Scarborough it is way North from where I am, but would be happy and to listen and chat. I am sure she is more wiser than I.

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by Jack of Spades

Okay, so it sounds like your path was a process over the time rather than any big single moment of revelation.

For the record, I think the "You only want to hear the good things" - line is a standard Christian blanket accusation towards people who question things. I don't even take that particular accusation very seriously, as it is clear to me that nobody takes it all seriously, the practicing Christians just are usually not aware of this themselves. There are a lot of mindgames how people justify their own habits of ignoring parts of the Bible while claiming to hold it as the final authority.

As you can probably already tell, this Bible-thing is my pet peeve with Christian culture...



I think our beliefs are similar to everything else in life, they're not meant to stay completely static, but evolve over time, and change with our inner progress. Growth and change are the signs of everything healthy in life, so I think our spirituality and beliefs should be open for change too. I don't see my path of growing out of Christian beliefs as a failure, or a loss, but rather as a natural, healthy progress. It wasn't all fun and easy though, far from it.

Actually most, almost all, ex-Christians I've met are nowadays atheists, with them I share the same past, but not the same present or the same direction. As I haven't known very many people who have evolved from Christianity to some other form of religion/spirituality, I can't really tell from experience if are there many people who are like me out there. It sounds like you've met plenty of them?

I have met all different people as we all have. I can say that the majority of them have been good in their own ways. Some have been heavily into religion and some have believed in "nothing". Some have been ignorant and disrespectful to other peoples beliefs and others open minded. In my experience of being part of various churches I found it was not for me. I was part of High Church, Pentecostal, Spiritualist, I left them all...I am now living an open viewed life of respect. I like a healthy natural belief system and question "Who am I". Look up a guy called Ramana Maharishi, he is someone I believe has worked things out. We read his teachings nearly every day. I am not Hindu but as you know love to read from all wisdom's and take goodness from it. I can imagine you have had a hard time to leave your faith, it is not easy you are right. I believe you are on the path that is right for you at this time in your life. I think you are right when you say that views change. Mine certainly have , but I meet good people and as long as Im being respectful and living a good life Im happy

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by Jack of Spades

Okay, so it sounds like your path was a process over the time rather than any big single moment of revelation.

For the record, I think the "You only want to hear the good things" - line is a standard Christian blanket accusation towards people who question things. I don't even take that particular accusation very seriously, as it is clear to me that nobody takes it all seriously, the practicing Christians just are usually not aware of this themselves. There are a lot of mindgames how people justify their own habits of ignoring parts of the Bible while claiming to hold it as the final authority.

As you can probably already tell, this Bible-thing is my pet peeve with Christian culture...



I think our beliefs are similar to everything else in life, they're not meant to stay completely static, but evolve over time, and change with our inner progress. Growth and change are the signs of everything healthy in life, so I think our spirituality and beliefs should be open for change too. I don't see my path of growing out of Christian beliefs as a failure, or a loss, but rather as a natural, healthy progress. It wasn't all fun and easy though, far from it.

Actually most, almost all, ex-Christians I've met are nowadays atheists, with them I share the same past, but not the same present or the same direction. As I haven't known very many people who have evolved from Christianity to some other form of religion/spirituality, I can't really tell from experience if are there many people who are like me out there. It sounds like you've met plenty of them?

I have met all different people as we all have. I can say that the majority of them have been good in their own ways. Some have been heavily into religion and some have believed in "nothing". Some have been ignorant and disrespectful to other peoples beliefs and others open minded. In my experience of being part of various churches I found it was not for me. I was part of High Church, Pentecostal, Spiritualist, I left them all...I am now living an open viewed life of respect. I like a healthy natural belief system and question "Who am I". Look up a guy called Ramana Maharishi, he is someone I believe has worked things out. We read his teachings nearly every day. I am not Hindu but as you know love to read from all wisdom's and take goodness from it. I can imagine you have had a hard time to leave your faith, it is not easy you are right. I believe you are on the path that is right for you at this time in your life. I think you are right when you say that views change. Mine certainly have , but I meet good people and as long as Im being respectful and living a good life Im happy