Belief and explanation.

[weareunity]

Hello Iamthat.

Thank you also for explaining your reasoning.

Do you think it is accurate to say that what your explanation does clarify--retrospectively imo--is that to be able to see any validity in post 13 the reader will first need to be amongst those who subscribe to your belief concerning Souls and incarnation?

petex

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by weareunity

Do you think it is accurate to say that what your explanation does clarify--retrospectively imo--is that to be able to see any validity in post 13 the reader will first need to be amongst those who subscribe to your belief concerning Souls and incarnation?

Yes, it does require an acceptance of the idea that we are Souls (or Consciousness) incarnate in human form, subject to certain laws, fulfilling a particular purpose.

Other people may have other ideas of what it means to be a human being. We each come up with a model to explain human existence, and naturally our own model is the one that makes most sense to us.

Peace.

[weareunity]

Hello again Iamthat.

I think your reply will be welcomed by those readers--including myself--who were not made aware in your post 13 that to find the post meaningful requires--as you say--prior acceptance of a particular belief.

As a comment not intended as censure, but actually as a gentle nudge--I have a feeling that anyone not aware of that and who perhaps have themselves been victimised, perhaps still are victims, or have been in some way been close to someone who has been or remains victimised, may well feel upset and confused by your post13.--which I am sure was not your intention at all. --over and out. Good wishes.

petex

[iamthat]

And good wishes to you, petex.

It was certainly not my intention to upset or confuse anyone.

For me, there is value in any genuine spiritual philosophy if it puts the problems of the personality into greater perspective. It may not remove the problem, but if it can provide some understanding of why something might be happening and if it gives us a measure of detachment from the problem then that can only be helpful.

Peace.

[Native spirit]

My instincs are very strong if someone says something to me then I either believe them or I don't,as I said I rely on my instincts if something feels wrong then it is.never doubt your instincts.
if someone were to ask why I believe that then I would say that is something you have to answer for yourself.
my belief may be right for me but not for everyone. and I don't have to explain myself for anyone.

Namaste

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Native spirit

My instincs are very strong if someone says something to me then I either believe them or I don't,as I said I rely on my instincts if something feels wrong then it is.never doubt your instincts.
if someone were to ask why I believe that then I would say that is something you have to answer for yourself.
my belief may be right for me but not for everyone. and I don't have to explain myself for anyone.

Namaste

I believe that's the way! Surely, it works better when you're in a state of higher awareness.

[inavalan]

Things are rarely black and white, and there's a saying: "sometimes is better to be kind than to be right".

Still, if I were a victim and I had to choose between being treated with compassion, or being helped, I'd choose the latter.

I know, I know: why can't one both help and be compassionate? Answer: You can't always get what you want / But if you try sometime you find / You get what you need

[weareunity]

Hello invalan.

I think a fear of loving may at times seek refuge behind the assumption of knowing.

petex

Originally Posted by inavalan

Things are rarely black and white, and there's a saying: "sometimes is better to be kind than to be right".

Still, if I were a victim and I had to choose between being treated with compassion, or being helped, I'd choose the latter.

I know, I know: why can't one both help and be compassionate? Answer: You can't always get what you want / But if you try sometime you find / You get what you need

inavalan,

Perhaps this is a matter of semantics or definition and this might appear to be a techincal point. But I understand 'compassion' to imply action therefore it means helping. We feel 'empathy' or 'sympathy' but we act out of/or act with compassion.

Originally Posted by iamthat

This comes back to the controversial issue of does the Soul choose to incarnate in difficult circumstances, such as a childhood of being abused, in order to learn particular lessons?

A child who is abused in whatever way may grow up to become an abuser, thus perpetuating the pattern of behaviour. We may condemn such behaviour, but perhaps we should also view such people with compassion. They are repeating what they have learned because they know no better.

Or such a child may go through life feeling that they are the victim of others. As adults they may find themselves in relationships or work situations where the pattern of abuse is repeated. Maybe their challenge is to rise above identification with victimhood and begin to take charge of their relationships and their lives.

And we cannot ignore the possibility that a child suffering abuse is reaping their own karma - who knows what they might have done previously, and maybe they need to experience for themselves how it feels to be abused.

A child who is abused may in later life rise above their own experiences and use this experience to help others in a similar situation. They know how it feels because they have been through it themselves.

This is a controversial subject and I do not have the answers. But sometimes we have to step back and try to understand things in a greater context.

Peace.

Friend,

I remember someone once saying be careful not to conflate the Relative with the Absolute i.e. just because "All Is One" doesn't mean there are no subject/objects

I think (and weareunity made some good points) this is contextual.

For an adult, for some, this may be a useful perspective. It may even be true. I don't really know, to be honest, but I can see its logic and appeal, its helpfulness to some.

But on a relative level, a woman - or worse - child who is raped, a man who is beaten half to death, a dog who dies saving its owner. Well - words words words -

But who will not cry?

I do agree with weareunity in that for some these words - that there are no victims, there are no people more powerful (not real power, but perhaps physical/monetary etc) than another and use that position to harm others - I feel it's untrue on a relative level - relative is the land of the intellect, how most of this world still operates.

I see so many children hurt in this world - these are victims, there are people who try to help such people. Not thinking or seeing these people as having "predefined soul contracts" or reaping kamma. As I said, maybe, who knows? I certainly don't have this wisdom or knowledge but in my line of training, what I do is real is the wordlessness of compassion.

Someone once asked an old acquaintance of mine, a vested Buddhist practitioner, if it is true if this is a dream, why do we care. And he said because we honor that which is in front of us. Sometimes laughing, sometimes crying, always in heart.

One Heart.

FWIW.

Namaste,

JL