The Purpose of Life

[Gem]

Originally Posted by lifensoul

Gem...thats all it is.. let it be so then, as long as you know what you say you do, that is enough, for now, for you, as it is for everyone...don't stress yourself that someone is trying to control you and you have to give in.

I didn't say I knew anything, and I don't feel stressed, but the control mechanism is observable as I described, i.e, accept the 'truth' otherwise the consequences is relegation the deficient 'majority'. I reiterate that I , you, everyone, as the audience to this 'truth' is reduced to the subject that either accepts or refutes, are given that ultimatum, and not enabled a free agency of expression.

Every thing is only a belief until it is proved otherwise...there wouldn't be such variation in existence otherwise. I am sure you have your reasons to know your beliefs or your expression of it to be true...this whole thing that seems t fought under the term spiritual etc..is all about reaching that point where what is held cannot be disproved. Its easy. But the tools to do the prove/disprove tests are hidden under layers of beliefs, which exist just to keep the tools hiding...but knowledge is all it is...and it is never wise to simply discard, denyor reject it, for you never know when it might come handy..any knowledge..same here...

I think this whole notion of truth is misguided. Firstly it forces acceptance or denial as I said above, but furthermore, manipulates acceptance through that notion of truth. The whole idea is a loaded coercion.

In order to not project myself, I had edited the post, seems like when you were typing your reply. My advice to Leo was related to something else entirely, and it was a personal conversation, unfortunately in the open, and I am sure he understands exactly what I mean and why....yup...I only used it as an example and added a few disclaimers...if you don't believe me, then check my post again.....you were too quick to reply, lol....

It's a matter of being self aware, because we all have our own needs that tie into what motivates us, and these show through in such things as loaded questions, double binds, suggestive phrasing and self centred projections like making my past into somthing I want to protect you from, or, 'I used to be like the majority of SF members'. We're only human and we all have needs and we all have values, and if we deny that or are unaware of it, we're bound to impose them upon others.

The tool for control is secrecy, preventing any possibility of free thinking...projected confusion, chaos and the expected end result is disempowerment. Not empowerment and transparency. I am sure you grasp and understand that.

Power, privelige and oppression starts with knowledge. The knowledge of the expert, and if I write the discourse or am a scholar thereof, I become the expert. My position is the power position. From that place I can write the narrative of the others... like 'the majority' and define them as not like me, necessarily, in order to define my privileged position. That where it starts, and this ploy has been the mechanism by which dominant europeans colonised the East, how the Arians narrated the undesirable gypsies and Jews, how the Press portrayed the 'terrorist'... and all power balances stem from 'knowledges'... there is no knowledge that is the truth, so the discourses of knowledge are re-written over and over. Knowledge changes according to who uses it for power.

And I am sure you are also aware of the difference between help and trapping someone with disguised help. One way to differentiate would be to see if there is any reward to be gained by the helper, personally in a manner that is not transparent and agreed upon.

Ok, so the power isn't ever owned by anyone. It enacted through people, and people are by and large unaware of how they enact power because it isn't in their hands; it's right through them. When people say they are helping... it's not as it appears to be... I know that many people have narrated me, and in terms of ego, lack, psycho-pathology. I become the 'other' who is not like them. It's clearly the exersizing of power, not by them, but through them... which works through me if I internalise the 'knowledge'. If I did internalise it, I would see myself as the deficient being which they decscribe, which doesn't do me any good at all. It's harmful.... but they say they act with the best intentions, out of huge compassion and are trying to help me... so ... help is a highly specialised thing that entails awareness of these nuances of power, taken-to-be-true assumptions, self needs and values, and entails a huge ethical considerations of permission and protection, safety and confidentiality which all goes toward creating a trust which enables complete free agency of expression for any self determining being.

Gem, feel free to believe what you want... no outsider has a place in your argument anyway...for it is with yourself rather than with me, more so coz you are clever enough to know all the pros and cons of the arguments, going by how you put your arguments across generally, you know exactly what you are arguing to prove or disprove, you know exactly what you are trying to control and how and none of of it has anything to do with anyone but you....let me give a hint.. The control you feel is more about you being controlled about your own beliefs...I suggest a small exercise. You answer those questions yourself ...role play me? Use a different color if you want.

I have only scanned your post, but i get the gist of it, i think. I wanted to add something, in case you had not brought it into the argument in your post with regards to my example of the mother you child thing I posed to you earlier, I wanted to add another important question to your list,for when you might be willing to as much start seeking the truth...forget about the means or ways to get to it. The question is - if you, the mother,the child, hunger, and the innumerable other variables equalling beliefs are not controlling each other..then which belief is more real, the mother belief, the child belief, or are you the only real belief that exists in the entire universe? How do you get to decide that? Based on what? The answer to this last question will point to the exact source of limiting frustration in you, in your so called spiritual search...or it will decisively tell you about your intentions or present position in relation to this thing called spiritual journey, if such a thing exists in your books..but you are in the spiritual part of the forum, so you most probably believe in some kind of spiritual stuff or are interested in finding something about it? (You seem to have come a long way forward over just the past few months, look back at your posts, you will feel good about your journey, it is quite obvious, the slight shift, I didn't look at it recently but yesterday i recollected the general stance you had about 4 months ago).

Feel a bit tired at the moment too, to make an effort thinking about how to respond to your post and where the issues that need to be looked into lie...meaning that I will simply end up going about an aimless argument just to take the challenge on and not to seen as backing off equated to accepting that I am wrong somewhere deep there in my subconscious mind. But then I also trust you can do do the job yourself...lol..

[Gem]

Originally Posted by lifensoul

Gem, feel free to believe what you want... no outsider has a place in your argument anyway...for it is with yourself rather than with me, more so coz you are clever enough to know all the pros and cons of the arguments, going by how you put your arguments across generally, you know exactly what you are arguing to prove or disprove, you know exactly what you are trying to control and how and none of of it has anything to do with anyone but you....let me give a hint.. The control you feel is more about you being controlled about your own beliefs...I suggest a small exercise. You answer those questions yourself ...role play me? Use a different color if you want.

I'm not arguing with you. I don't feel 'control'. I'm just saying stuff, and explaining some things. I'm not asking you to agree or disagree or framing an argument. You get to respond in any way what-so-ever.

I have only scanned your post, but i get the gist of it, i think. I wanted to add something, in case you had not brought it into the argument in your post with regards to my example of the mother you child thing I posed to you earlier, I wanted to add another important question to your list,for when you might be willing to as much start seeking the truth...forget about the means or ways to get to it. The question is - if you, the mother,the child, hunger, and the innumerable other variables equalling beliefs are not controlling each other..then which belief is more real, the mother belief, the child belief, or are you the only real belief that exists in the entire universe? How do you get to decide that? Based on what? The answer to this last question will point to the exact source of limiting frustration in you, in your so called spiritual search...or it will decisively tell you about your intentions or present position in relation to this thing called spiritual journey, if such a thing exists in your books..but you are in the spiritual part of the forum, so you most probably believe in some kind of spiritual stuff or are interested in finding something about it? (You seem to have come a long way forward over just the past few months, look back at your posts, you will feel good about your journey, it is quite obvious, the slight shift, I didn't look at it recently but yesterday i recollected the general stance you had about 4 months ago).

It seems to me that you've created a few assumptions and there appears to be a narrative about gem. More subtly delivered than most I hear, but I know the pattern and I know the power trip.

I'll explain it. In your post there is a Gem who is controlling and frustrated and clever and the whole post is heavily focuses on me. I'm not sure yet what subject positions you're trying to create for us yet, but I suspect you are trying to take the helper/healer role and asserting 'other' on me in order to define your own helper position.

I think the request for a roleplay was a bit creepy, and it seems as though you went to the trouble to investigate my past posts... and somehow you've already positioned yourself as the authority who measures my spiritual progress, but at least you complimented it.\

Due to this, I really need to make it clear; I don't want your help.

Feel a bit tired at the moment too, to make an effort thinking about how to respond to your post and where the issues that need to be looked into lie...meaning that I will simply end up going about an aimless argument just to take the challenge on and not to seen as backing off equated to accepting that I am wrong somewhere deep there in my subconscious mind. But then I also trust you can do do the job yourself...lol..

Ok, this is really creeping me out. 'Issues that need to be looked into?'. I don't know exactly what you're up to because you haven't stated you intentions, but you are up to something.

Gem, repeat post #72, except that i read your response fully and that I am not tired. Let's say post #73 was my response.. Thank you for the above response...

Originally Posted by LeoJeo

In short, Truth is: Everything is God, God is Everything. If this, (Truth), is not accepted wholely and completely by all of humanity, New Earth will never truly be created in the way it can be. To accept Truth and know ourselves as the word God is the Purpose and Meaning of Life.

Yes, everything is god, god is everything - I agree with that.
But even the "not accepting" of it is already perfect and whole in itself.
Whether an apparent entity "accepts" anything is completely irrelevant to "god". (meaning the totality of what is - the only "substance" there . not an entity that somehow orchestrates everything)
If god is everything there is nothing other than god and nothing separate from it that has the choice to accept or not accept anything.
There is no purpose, it doesn't NEED a purpose, or even better God is free of any purpose to be exactly as he is.
But it is just a matter of words.
Whatever appears is already perfect in itself. There ist absolutely no meaning or purpose somewhere inside this.
Purpose is a concept, not an experiential reality.