ANICCA.

[sky]

As everything is impermanent why do we still cling to things, is it because we are unconsciously trying to make things permanent ? The only thing that is permanent is change....

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

I think most experience themselves as virtually permanent, fixed, the centre from which the world is observed as totally "other" from themselves.

A recipe for suffering, dukkha.

[sky]

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice

I think most experience themselves as virtually permanent, fixed, the centre from which the world is observed as totally "other" from themselves.

A recipe for suffering, dukkha.

So true, we do sometimes think we are permanent, until we look in the mirror . Even our preferences for what we would choose to be permanently fixed change over time. Buddha was correct, we do cause a lot of our òwn suffering and yet the things we prefer to be fixed are pleasurable.
' Nothing is fixed and permanent, everything is subject to change, cling to nothing '
The Buddha....

[snowyowl]

Originally Posted by sky123

As everything is impermanent why do we still cling to things, is it because we are unconsciously trying to make things permanent ? The only thing that is permanent is change....

Some other things which (may) not be impermanent are more abstract truth claims like 1 + 1 = 2, or indeed 'all conditioned things are impermanent'.

The truth of impermanence is like many Buddhist ideas, presented in a shorthand form. It doesn't claim that everything is impermanent (which is a paradoxical statement anyway), but that all conditioned things are impermanent. Which implies that all conditions are impermanent.

Also interesting is that we inevitably discuss impermanence from the pov of the self which clings to them and observes them. But another sign of being is that all phenomena are not-self, so presumably when we think we're observing or clinging to things, we're caught up in illusion anyway.

Who decides what are the things to be considered as permanent or impermanent? Who draws the boundaries to delineate thingness (I think it's called reification)? IMO it's the observer, the atta. Which is not to doubt the truth of anicca, anatta and dukkha, but to say I find it helpful to consider then together, as they interact.

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

Originally Posted by snowyowl

Which is not to doubt the truth of anicca, anatta and dukkha, but to say I find it helpful to consider then together, as they interact.

Yes, it does come as a complete package....

[sky]

Originally Posted by snowyowl

but to say I find it helpful to consider then together, as they interact.

Yes Anicca is one of the Three Universal Truths.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

So true, we do sometimes think we are permanent, until we look in the mirror . Even our preferences for what we would choose to be permanently fixed change over time. Buddha was correct, we do cause a lot of our òwn suffering and yet the things we prefer to be fixed are pleasurable.
' Nothing is fixed and permanent, everything is subject to change, cling to nothing '
The Buddha....

It's that clinging and the degree we resist the change/what is, that shows our obstructions.

Let go and let it flow...

Until reaching the shore, clinging to a raft is a good thing.
Is clinging to this thing useful to where I am now on the path? If yes hold on to it.
If no longer so, let go

[sky]

Originally Posted by Eelco

Until reaching the shore, clinging to a raft is a good thing.
Is clinging to this thing useful to where I am now on the path? If yes hold on to it.
If no longer so, let go

Imo you can hold on to the 'Raft' without clinging to it and loosen the grip when the time is right...

We're saying the same thing. Clinging, letting go in my book is the same as holding on and loosening the grip.


What I wonder if everything is Anicca. Why would we cling to the raft at all.
I know why I do.


There is a goal to be reached. A mind state to realize. Clinging to that until reaching it seems a skillful means for now.