I made a big mistake...

[wolfgaze]

Originally Posted by lunapixie

Why did my guides feel that I needed to see that woman's face?

Perhaps to have the effect of serving to further push you through this challenging phase of your life experience, which is part of your soul's development/progression... Consider if you had been too scared to explore this - the thought of this other person being involved and the fear of seeing them in a photo together may have lingered in your mind indefinitely, and this could have held you back and kept you from fully processing what's going on inside you. As torturous and unpleasant at this might sound on the surface - in a way you need to experience the full weight of the 'hurting' that's inside you in order for you to be able to completely purge that emotional energy and come to rise above it...

This being said.. Is it accurate to suggest that you really only needed this one viewing, and that it would be counterproductive for you to continue to check up on their FB pages?

[ForeverRestless]

Originally Posted by FairyDawn

I'm so going to be in the minority here.

What is cheating? How are they cheating intj? What do they owe you? Do you possess them and they only belong to you? What right and entilement do you have over what they choose to do and who to do in their life? It's not your business yet you make it your business by 'creeping' FB profiles.

Luna...I hope you see that everything that comes up for you is what is teaching you. Like this...whats the opposite of unforgiveness? Whats the opposite of anxiety? Whats the opposite of fear? Once you work through what your emotions and feelings are teaching you, it can become easier to understand.
You can sit in jealousy or strive to it's opposite and what it's teaching you.

Love to me is actually liberating not 'wont let you go'.
I had my ex husband be pretty much the same. It wasn't love but that's all I knew and so I thought it was love. The more he clung to me the more I realised it wasn't love but his fear because he KNEW he was not the one and I was not his 'one'.

Love should never be confused with possessiveness. I had my sc teach me a lot about my emotions by what would trigger up in me from his reactions, behaviours and how in turn I reacted. I'd get jealous of how easy he'd talk with his female friends yet with me..no. I'd make such a fool of myself. Yet in hindsight it was all teaching me and preparing me.
He has a website and on it he publicly spoke about recieving sexual satisfaction from another woman. Guess how I reacted? Nope, wasn't jealous. I was actually happy for him. He described how it made him feel as if he were going into another dimension (orgasm). My love allows him to be free and experience anything in life that brings him joy and closer to his truth.
If I had seen that on his website in the height of my messy emotions I would have lost the plot.
I kind of see sex as two organs bumping together and the only thing that makes it 'something' is the emotions attached to the person. Otherwise, it is what it is, two genitals together.

You believe M to be your TF Luna, then maybe you need to ask yourself why it bothers you about him being in a relationship (going by the belief that twins are never separated at the soul). Once you find the answer you can work out what it teaches you. It's all about soul growth. His soul is pushing your soul to clear out old beliefs, prgramming and conditioning that you've known up until now. It's not an easy walk in the park is it?

FairyDawn, your response interests me very much. My TF's need to pursue a sexual life outside of me for several reasons (me only coming into his life for a few days while traveling, me being 5,000 miles away, him not having experienced much of a sex life for over a year before meeting me, his need to explore more nuanced areas of his sexuality and carry on that journey, etc.), was the major reason he and I ceased speaking. Maybe I was making my assessments from a 3D point of view, but I always believed that if a man doesn't want to make some kind of sacrifice for you, or isn't loyal to you (in his heart or his loins), then he isn't worth your time. Either he is A.) Not that into you or B.) Just not following standard normal decent human relationship behaviors, in which case he doesn't make an attractive boyfriend prospect anyway, which basically boils down to the same "he's just not that into you" outcome, regardless of what his heart's intentions were. It's the action, and the results of that action, that make all the difference. Not how a person claims to feel. He wanted to go mess around and be promiscuous. I wanted to love him and build upon our initial connection and work toward a stable long distance relationship that could eventually become a close-distance once. He wouldn't even give himself a chance to consider that. He was ready for his sexual walkabout. I saw him as extremely selfish. I saw him as extremely disrespectful of me and dismissive of the connection we'd had in person, and even over the phone/Skype/chat, and I saw him as a person prioritizing cheap physical thrills over the ultimate connection in the universe. It devastated me, heartbroke me. I was so rejected by his desire to pursue the desires of the flesh and feed his ego (with attention from young girls) that I rejected the idea of even a friendship with him, which is what he was offering by that point. He wasn't attempting to "have his cake and eat it too"; he knew he if was going to embark on his self-indulgent sexual walkabout, he couldn't very well ask me to be there for him in the same ways I had before. Who knows what would have happened if I'd accepted this very limited, shadowy form of a relationship he was offering, being the only one in control of the outcome, while my hands were tied. I felt dumped all over. Abused. Drained. Disrespected. But at the same time, I knew his heart and I knew he was doing this because he could not continue into the next phase of adulthood without getting a few things out of his system. And I knew he wasn't at a point in his life where he was ready to pursue a long-distance relationship with confidence and strength. So in a sense, I was the selfish one by cutting it off. I went cold on him in subsequent conversations, and he took the hint, and we never communicated again. I assume he went out and had his sex, but that didn't last very long, because he was almost instantly in a relationship. TF was a sweet soul, not naturally promiscuous, and happiest (plus with a clearer conscience about sex) when he was in a relationship. So that was the avenue he took. Of course I told myself stories that he went with this woman because she surpassed me in so many ways, but the more likely answer is: She was there, and he wanted a sexual life without messing around with a bunch of people. He was splitting the difference and I wouldn't even talk to him anymore... because he wouldn't give me exactly what I wanted, as I wanted it, on the timeline I wanted it. Sometimes I realize my mistakes in this. My desire to control, my jealousy, my anger were all so very wrong. But in a 3D sense, you know every dating coach would say "dump that jerk!" Bringing the 5D into it just feels like making excuses. How many people will you watch your spouse cheat with if you just view the love as a 5D thing that cannot be controlled or gripped on to. That it has to be enwrapped softly in your warmth, but with the fluidity to change and evolve and even leave you behind if that's what the spirit guides call the love to do? It's so hard to be OK with that, and to reconcile an acceptance of jerky 3D behavior. Can I learn to be OK with my TF getting raunchy, passionate sexual needs met with others in the world when I have lost pretty much all interest in sex myself, since I can no longer experience the intensity of what I had with TF. It is just that nothing compares for me, not even close, but for him, it's just whatever. I wonder if he even compares the two, knows the difference, or cares. It's just sex to him. Like you said, bumping genitalia together. But it's so much more than that for me, now—now that I have known him. My whole life, my whole view on sex and love changed because of him, and he's reverted back to the familiar and easy. I'm at a point where I can accept this now, even if I don't understand it. I'm even at a point where I don't compare myself to this new woman, assuming she's better than me. So many months later, I actually see the ways that I am better than her, as I learn to love myself. We are all human, maybe no one is better than the other. I just am glad I'm not putting myself down while putting her on a pedestal anymore. But I remain baffled at times that he does not see me and value me and try to reconnect with me. Doesn't he see my value? Doesn't he see that she's just another human but he and I were Twins? I don't know. I'm probably wanting too much, and I should just let it go. But I am learning love myself and see myself as lovable, so I guess that's a start. Loving him now means I won't possess him. I can love him from afar. I could be satisfied with just a few smiles and jokes, not even anything romantic... that would be enough. But isn't that the proverbial, 3D way of just "accepting crumbs" from a man who isn't treating you at your worth? I run in circles with this. I guess I just have to accept that he will have all the sex and all the relationships he wants until the one day he wakes up and realizes we were always one. I know I can't force that, or expedite it, which is another reason I leave him 100 percent alone. Maybe one day he will figure it all out on his own. But until then, I simply sit back and allow him to live it up, without my interference. And meanwhile, I'm trying to extract as much infinite joy from my daily life as possible. And every day, I get a little bit better at it.

[Sugar-n-Spice]

I understand the TF dynamic and all runner / chaser but lunapixie darling you have to set limits between respect of privacy and health of your own sanity with this thing. This does not come from one who does not know hurt because believe me I felt like I had my soul scored from within me and served to some hungry beast sitting on the end of the lower multiverse. You will need to find some way to settle your soul and focus because you say a lot that you are doing things, but then you wonder why your guides have led you on this route -- I know when we are in an agitated state things are zipping past and we are not really realizing what is going on at times so I just wanted to show that to you. If he blocked you from his Facebook...to heck (can I say that here? ) with his Facebook seriously. Abstain from that thing like an incurable disease. I know that you wanted to see who he was with and all and make a comparison and so forth but now that you have, maybe you should try to leave this alone and not let your mind wander on this. It would be better to return your thoughts to yourself and appreciate your beauty and the wonderful things about yourself. No matter how you quantify the situation or compare it will avail nothing, you may be drawing conclusions and making comparisons that he has never even thought of...it's pointless.

If you are going to chase, set limits with dignity and truth and if you are feeling overwhelmed and too emotional to adhere to them then be still.

[Illuminata007]

Originally Posted by [COLOR="DarkGreen"

I run in circles with this. I guess I just have to accept that he will have all the sex and all the relationships he wants until the one day he wakes up and realizes we were always one. I know I can't force that, or expedite it, which is another reason I leave him 100 percent alone. Maybe one day he will figure it all out on his own. [/color].

I also run in circles with this except after a 4 year separation, we are in contact with each other and I kind of accept the crumbs, we sometimes see each other and it is romantic and cute but he sees other women and encourages me to do the same. The funny thing is that when I told him I wanted to explore a relationship with someone and we needed to stay platonic, he got really weird, competitive and I realize for one brief second that he felt inadequate. It was so odd because he can be very cocky. I actually intimidate him, I don't really try to at all. I don't know that he will ever choose me, it is really a struggle to know if I need to leave it alone or not. I've stopped talking to him, ran like crazy only to be right back to where I am right now.

As to the other women, I used to feel inadequate and I know I don't. I am older than my twin, and my body is not as banging as it used to be but I am me and there is only one version me. I love myself more and value myself more deeply after I went thru the absolute hell when he dumped me the first time. I also found a picture of them on FB and she was nothing out of this world. I see some of the women he has dated, I am not threatened by them at all. If he chooses to settle with someone else I know I will be ok.

[Clover]

Hi Luna,

You definitely needed to see that. That is an answer. Do you know what blew me away? You were able to find the divine strength within yourself to write a bold and positive thread the other day (link below). Really, it was remarkable. Listen to your own words. Keep pushing forward, your happiness awaits you...

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...ad.php?t=97603

Maybe write that book.You can interview me.

[ForeverRestless]

Originally Posted by Illuminata007

I also run in circles with this except after a 4 year separation, we are in contact with each other and I kind of accept the crumbs, we sometimes see each other and it is romantic and cute but he sees other women and encourages me to do the same. The funny thing is that when I told him I wanted to explore a relationship with someone and we needed to stay platonic, he got really weird, competitive and I realize for one brief second that he felt inadequate. It was so odd because he can be very cocky. I actually intimidate him, I don't really try to at all. I don't know that he will ever choose me, it is really a struggle to know if I need to leave it alone or not. I've stopped talking to him, ran like crazy only to be right back to where I am right now.

As to the other women, I used to feel inadequate and I know I don't. I am older than my twin, and my body is not as banging as it used to be but I am me and there is only one version me. I love myself more and value myself more deeply after I went thru the absolute hell when he dumped me the first time. I also found a picture of them on FB and she was nothing out of this world. I see some of the women he has dated, I am not threatened by them at all. If he chooses to settle with someone else I know I will be ok.

But see, Illuminati, this is the issue. If someone really loves us, why would they 1.) Date other people and 2.) Encourage us to date other people. It's ridiculous! The only time I've ever encouraged a guy I was seeing to see other people was when I didn't have romantic feelings for him, wanted to let him down gently/gradually get him off my back. This whole dialogue (and the life choices driving it) just telegraphs to me that the Runner could take it or leave it. They're not affected by the love enough to CLAIM it, and if so, maybe it's only one-sided or maybe they'll never be enlightened enough in this lifetime to recognize it. It's ridiculous. Are we supposed to accept this?

I have a friend (a male friend) who is going through the separation period with his TF and he has chosen to remain in contact with her as a friend even though they're not romantic right now. He is a stronger person than I, obviously. But I kind of wish I had taken the route he did, because he gets to share things with her still, and it's so special. They still connect as she continues her journey. But what happens when she starts a sexual or romantic relationship with a new man? Will it all be OK? Should it all be OK for us Chasers? It just seems like a choice that a person with very low self-worth would make. I continue to fail to make sense of it.

[Inika]

ForeverRestless, I totally feel you in your posts. I do understand where you are coming from. I've fought with my ego over this thing for a good while, even now I still have my struggles.
I want to ask you this.....regardless of what he does and what you don't get from him. Do you love him?

[ScarleT]

I'm so going to be in the minority here.

What is cheating? How are they cheating intj? What do they owe you? Do you possess them and they only belong to you? What right and entilement do you have over what they choose to do and who to do in their life? It's not your business yet you make it your business by 'creeping' FB profiles.

Luna...I hope you see that everything that comes up for you is what is teaching you. Like this...whats the opposite of unforgiveness? Whats the opposite of anxiety? Whats the opposite of fear? Once you work through what your emotions and feelings are teaching you, it can become easier to understand.
You can sit in jealousy or strive to it's opposite and what it's teaching you.

Love to me is actually liberating not 'wont let you go'.
Quote:
I had a man love me once who never let me go. I married him when I was only 21. Yes, he did so many hurtful things to me a few years into our marriage and eventually I divorced him
I had my ex husband be pretty much the same. It wasn't love but that's all I knew and so I thought it was love. The more he clung to me the more I realised it wasn't love but his fear because he KNEW he was not the one and I was not his 'one'.

Love should never be confused with possessiveness. I had my sc teach me a lot about my emotions by what would trigger up in me from his reactions, behaviours and how in turn I reacted. I'd get jealous of how easy he'd talk with his female friends yet with me..no. I'd make such a fool of myself. Yet in hindsight it was all teaching me and preparing me.
He has a website and on it he publicly spoke about recieving sexual satisfaction from another woman. Guess how I reacted? Nope, wasn't jealous. I was actually happy for him. He described how it made him feel as if he were going into another dimension (orgasm). My love allows him to be free and experience anything in life that brings him joy and closer to his truth.
If I had seen that on his website in the height of my messy emotions I would have lost the plot.
I kind of see sex as two organs bumping together and the only thing that makes it 'something' is the emotions attached to the person. Otherwise, it is what it is, two genitals together.

You believe M to be your TF Luna, then maybe you need to ask yourself why it bothers you about him being in a relationship (going by the belief that twins are never separated at the soul). Once you find the answer you can work out what it teaches you. It's all about soul growth. His soul is pushing your soul to clear out old beliefs, prgramming and conditioning that you've known up until now. It's not an easy walk in the park is it?

This is so very true! Very well said.

[ScarleT]

Luna, you seem to be obsessed with him. This is not doing anything good to you. For the sake of your own sanity you should stop obsessing over him. Please, be so kind and take care of yourself.

Sending much love!

[intj123]

Originally Posted by FairyDawn

Can you see? She hold jealousy inside and instead of dealing with it, projected it on to you so that YOU would be jealous and when another woman does appear it totally sets her off. Sounds like you both have a fair bit of work and learning to do about your behaviours. Try not to get sucked into the drama. Believe me, it only makes it worse.

Honestly you don't know enough about her or me to be making all these judgments. I'm sure we ALL need more work since none of us have seemed to reach reunion yet.