what happens to human development when we develop spiritually

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

I find that if I expect my fellow human beings to act, behave or believe things a certain way I will always without fail be disappointed by those expectations.

Not expecting anything allows me the detachment to leave them to their lives and see the beauty in just that. If I let myself go into "attachment" if you will I find I am just as opinionated, rude, inconsiderate and egocentric as the next guy..

Then I go Yes that is within me too. Just like "them"

With Love
Eelco

On the other hand, it matters not what your expectations may be, because they'll just act the way they do anyway and if you could please teach me how to see the beauty in war, people competing and fighting over material objects, neighbours screaming abuse at each other etc, I'm all eyes.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

On the other hand, it matters not what your expectations may be, because they'll just act the way they do anyway and if you could please teach me how to see the beauty in war, people competing and fighting over material objects, neighbours screaming abuse at each other etc, I'm all eyes.

I can't. I agree there is little beauty in that.
That said I see where if my life's circumstances would have been different I could have been duped to fight someone else's war. I f my baby was to go hungry and there was only one box of formula left in the store I'd fight for it if it would mean my child would die otherwise. You got me on the neighbors though...

With Love
Eelco

I don't necessarily see beauty in the phenomenon you described above..
I do see that the forces that drive these act's are the same as the forces that drive me.

The fact that I make different choices based on who I am says nothing about the people who make different choices..

WIth Love
Eelco

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

I do see that the forces that drive these act's are the same as the forces that drive me. WIth Love
Eelco

I can't see that for some reason.

I try to understand that the same motivation which drives one for the dollar is the same that drives me for the Divine...but I cannot reconcile it and I don't know why.

Maybe it has something to do with Maya...I just don't know.

In my view both are driven by a desire for happiness.
Most people will not act on their desire for happiness regardless of the impact on others.
I believe that most will have some form of morale where they postpone their immediate desire if it means visibly hurting someone else.

This day and age though that visible hurt is tucked away to 3d world countries which are then de-humanized. Many just don't see what their actions cause in others.
Humanity is being played by those who understand desire and carefully groomed to not care.

Individually we can sometimes and given the right circumstances rise above the common accepted view and enter a realm in which we are able to pierce that veil. Most people however are caught up in they ways other have shaped them into and don't recognize their self imposed slavery.

I've decided at some point to no longer hold that against them and recognize that my wish to be happy is the same as their wish to be happy. The way we act on those desires may be more or less cause for suffering in ourselves and others, But I can only say that to those I come in contact with. Lacking the funds to buy main stream media however I don't see how to spread that message further..

Truth be told. I do not have many people I consider friends and would be happiest somewhere living alone in some cave. Having decided I will not leave my family in search of my happiness though I remain where I AM.

With Love
Eelco

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

In my view both are driven by a desire for happiness.
Most people will not act on their desire for happiness regardless of the impact on others.
I believe that most will have some form of morale where they postpone their immediate desire if it means visibly hurting someone else.

This day and age though that visible hurt is tucked away to 3d world countries which are then de-humanized. Many just don't see what their actions cause in others.
Humanity is being played by those who understand desire and carefully groomed to not care.

Individually we can sometimes and given the right circumstances rise above the common accepted view and enter a realm in which we are able to pierce that veil. Most people however are caught up in they ways other have shaped them into and don't recognize their self imposed slavery.

I've decided at some point to no longer hold that against them and recognize that my wish to be happy is the same as their wish to be happy. The way we act on those desires may be more or less cause for suffering in ourselves and others, But I can only say that to those I come in contact with. Lacking the funds to buy main stream media however I don't see how to spread that message further..

Truth be told. I do not have many people I consider friends and would be happiest somewhere living alone in some cave. Having decided I will not leave my family in search of my happiness though I remain where I AM.

With Love
Eelco

I can sort of understand this.

A year ago, I wound up in a mental hospital because I witnessed a stabbing and 'man's inhumanity towards man' just broke me inside. I suffered a total nervous breakdown.

Recovery took a few months and it was another patient there and not any doctors or nurses who taught me a mantra; "not my circus, not my monkeys" and I realised that people are just playing out Karma, but to watch it all unfold is just soul-destroying....and yet, I could feel no pity and no compassion for them, because I could also see they were creating their own misery and then whining about what they, themselves were creating.

What helped me was some understanding of the brahma-vihara's and the near and far enemies of those..

Lovingkindness, good-will (metta): Near enemy – attachment; far enemy – hatred
Compassion (karuna): Near enemy – pity; far enemy – cruelty
Sympathetic joy, Appreciation (mudita), joy at the good fortune of others: Near enemy – comparison,hypocrisy, insincerity, joy for others but tinged with identification (my team, my child); far enemy – envy
Equanimity (upekkha): Near enemy – indifference; far enemy – anxiety, greed

With Love
Eelco

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by catsquotl

What helped me was some understanding of the brahma-vihara's and the near and far enemies of those..



With Love
Eelco

Thank you, but I don't understand this. Could you please and kindly offer some further explanation or give a link? thanks.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I can sort of understand this.

A year ago, I wound up in a mental hospital because I witnessed a stabbing and 'man's inhumanity towards man' just broke me inside. I suffered a total nervous breakdown.

Recovery took a few months and it was another patient there and not any doctors or nurses who taught me a mantra; "not my circus, not my monkeys" and I realised that people are just playing out Karma, but to watch it all unfold is just soul-destroying....and yet, I could feel no pity and no compassion for them, because I could also see they were creating their own misery and then whining about what they, themselves were creating.

Obviously its better & safer if we all get along but is it nature?

Any nature program shows that everything on the planet competes. Within competition there is a winner & a loser.

I've seen similar horrors & when its all said and done God does not intervene.

Why would that be?

The very same creator of life has programmed the struggle - it must be necessary by that logic.

Humans forget that only the strong survive - from sperm onwards its in our very DNA.

Is it fair - no. Is it cruel - yes.

Is it of the creator or nature - it has to be.

Our ancestors would have lost loved ones on a stroll through the forest - imagine that, one twig snap & bang someone is being eaten alive.

We can push it aside all we want but you have to take responsibility yourself. For your protection, for your morality - there is no other choice.

We were never given one.

The whole " becoming one with God" notion is essentially humans trying to understand or come to terms with the fact that life can be fleeting & without purpose.

All those poor souls who died of dysentery - what's their legacy or universal place?

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Raziel

Obviously its better & safer if we all get along but is it nature?

Any nature program shows that everything on the planet competes. Within competition there is a winner & a loser.

I've seen similar horrors & when its all said and done God does not intervene.

Why would that be?

The very same creator of life has programmed the struggle - it must be necessary by that logic.

Humans forget that only the strong survive - from sperm onwards its in our very DNA.

Is it fair - no. Is it cruel - yes.

Is it of the creator or nature - it has to be.

Our ancestors would have lost loved ones on a stroll through the forest - imagine that, one twig snap & bang someone is being eaten alive.

We can push it aside all we want but you have to take responsibility yourself. For your protection, for your morality - there is no other choice.

We were never given one.

The whole " becoming one with God" notion is essentially humans trying to understand or come to terms with the fact that life can be fleeting & without purpose.

All those poor souls who died of dysentery - what's their legacy or universal place?

Yes, I can understand that humans are just as barbaric as animals because that's what they are deep down, but ever since the Neanderthal, I honestly thought we may have progressed and evolved just a tad from that and I wonder how long it will be, if ever?

I just have this strong feeling that I am not like them...neither inferior/superior but it's like I belong to a whole different species...all those things that others say and tout as 'human nature' just don't apply to me...I don't have a single competitive bone in my body, I'm not a social creature, I don't need protection...and if we go by evolution, I would probably be the one the villagers would tie to a tree in the face of hungry tigers and say to them "eat HER" and run away.

All my life I have wondered why this is so and why I seem to be the 'exception to the rule' in as much as humanity and their whole 'struggle for survival' goes....when they take MORE than they need to basically survive anyway.