"Organised religions are a huge obstacle to spirituality." Discuss.

Petezen,
Yes all humans have the possibilty of being Avatars.All humans are one with the Divine.However all humans are going up back to the creator.All avatars are one with and at the same time are God and come down to earth or other dimensions to help.
The time taken to once and for all being God forever is beyond the human mind.
Realization is one thing but God realization is very hard to achieve and yes possible.
Light and grace.
Eternity.

This could become another Avatar thread Petey?

The phrase 'Avatar' comes from the Vedic texts of Hinduism and is usually applied to describe Vishnu's descent into our Earthly realm. If we are all God (or Vishnu) then the term no longer has any meaning because to be an avatar is no longer a special thing. It may as well mean the same thing as 'jiva' or 'atma'.

It's my understanding that the sages of the past specifically used these terms so as to distinguish an ordinary soul from God. Otherwise why ever use it?

Gouranga

Das

The original comment for discussion was :Organised religions are a huge obstacle to spirituality.

If an organized religion and its leaders are doing their jobs, yes, they will hinder spiritual exploration, since everyone involved in that religion should have the same views and opinions. But the actual goal of all religion is collecting money to pay the electricity, heat, and rent, and to have enough left over for the leaders to have an occasional free lunch. Once the leaders have enjoyed a few free lunches, many of these leaders lose sight of the religious aspects, and focus on more free lunches and other assorted goodies.

John

I have to disagree. There is nothing that you can be a part of in this world that does not lend itself to being a lesson of life. It is irrelevant whether a person belongs to a religious group or not. If you belong to a very strict religious group, you might be inhibited in certain freedoms but you might also learn other lessons, such as sacrifice of the self, humility, gentleness, etc.

Not being in an organised religion does not automatically make you a more enlightened or better person. There are plenty of self proclaimed prophets out there who are delusional, totally ego centred and in a way less free than their religious cousins. While at times religious groups can be stifling, they can also act as a measure by which to help us discern the validity of our experiences so we don't end up delusional and ego centred.

Besides the idea of total freedom is a delusional stance, if for no other reason than the physical facts of mortality, limited resources, etc. At some point, one becomes forced by circumstance to work in a constructive way with others by following rules, which thereby limits one's freedoms. I don't know many people who deliberately run red lights or don't pay for the food they ordered. We all live according to some rules and are punished or prevented from breaking them.

My experience has been that I have met an equal number of enlightened people inside and outside organised religion; unfortunately, I have also met an equal but much greater number of shallow, egotistical, uncritical, meanspirited, fanatical, etc people on both sides as well.

Thanks 'tiltjlp' - you got the thread back on track.

Monkey - what a great post. I appreciate your honest and open-minded approach.

The essence is more important than the externals. Gold is gold - it doesn't matter if you find it in a toliet or a palace - and the same goes for spiritual enlightenment.

"Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear." (Bhagavad Gita 18.66)

Best Wishes,

Das

Some good points Monkey. I wasn't trying to imply that everyone not involved in an organized religion had a more insightful point of view. But they may well have the opportunity to hear a wider range of opinions, and probably will be a bit more open to other POV. From what I've seen on this forum, as well as most others I've been a part of, many members would benefit from a more serious attitude. In fact, attitude might be the most obvious obstacle to spirituality.

John

Hi titlip, could you explain what you mean by having a more serious attitude? I must admit to struggling to with this, whenever I hear "spritual" people expressing limiting views in a serious way it makes me laugh. Should I suppress my laughter in order to reach an enlightened state? What type of attitude will provide me with the greatest chance of obtaining spirituality?
I would love to have a well thought out answer from you to the above questions (or answers).

Well dreamer, for example, if your idea of an insightful thread is the Censorship **, then I would wonder if maybe you might not benefit from a more serious attitude. It's not so much someone's attitude that causes the problems, but more the inability to be serious when there is a need to be serious. I would think that on a site like this one that post count should be fairly meaningless, but I've noticed quite a few senseless threads with the same person or persons making "empty" comments to boost post count or to simply act a fool. I would think there are other forums better suited for one-liners.

I'm not at all passing judgement, simply answering your question. A sense of humor is wonderful, but a person needs to know when to reign in the whoopie cushion. You might keep in mind that I'm nearing 60, so so I'm between my 2nd and 3rd childhood.

John

Hi John,

I have got a few good belly laughs from posts on this forum (including some of yours Dreamer), but I think you do make a good point in what you're saying as the humour has gone a bit too far at times.

It makes me laugh when I read your motto about the toilet paper at the end of these messages on seriousness

Best Wishes,

Das

Originally Posted by Mart

I'm an avator, and so's my son.....my wife is but she won't admit it and you are but you forgot.

"I'm Brian...and so is my wife!"