A million ways to cope with depression

[Louisa]

This is embarassing and tiring, but maybe it's clearing.

I was thinking, I used to have very good friends, why not any more?

I realized it's because I'm different than I was then. I have spent 12 years being socially isolated, as a stay at home wife, seeing no one but my husband, no socializing after work, only seeing family every so often. Then after, hm, maybe 5 or 6 years married, our relationship became quite bad, and distant, traumatic, verbal abuse, (which is better now, not so verbally abusive, just quite distant often).

I spent much time reading and writing and online. I spent much time reading about spirituality, and self improvement. I think I got really dry and long winded. I was always prone to give spontaneous lectures, but I became like Owl in Winnie the Pooh, where everything becomes a boring long winded tale about my life.

I have a hard time breaking this habit. I am just writing this, because it's relevant to my own "depression" or "recovering depressive" (not clinically depressed, but prone to it if I don't find a way to keep it "stable").

I think with my relative, she's very isolated. She has interests that set her apart from others. I was very close to my friends, because we used to share deep interests and dreams and passions, like spirituality, art and creative writing. But it seems that with my relative, she only feels a deep connection with her boyfriend. I think maybe this is more about deep shared values, rather than conversations or hobbies, and it's about the shared love and adoration.

I think, now, I have interests that like maybe a fraction of a percent of the population even really can take seriously, much less be as into or obsessed with as I am.

Maybe that is my "problem". That I try to relate from an intellectual point of view to others, but they don't relate to my intellectual interests, and it's just not going to work well to do that.

Even here, where I find people who kind of relate to my interests, I feel that I'm weird compared with others, because I'm too long winded, and because I also go outside the normal views and behaviors of most here, in some significant ways. Even online in a huge, active and open minded forum, I feel like one of the outsiders of the group. I don't know how to overcome being an outsider everywhere I go, but maybe I could find a way.

Hmm.. That is probably one of my biggest hindrances even if it wasn't in the past.. I feel I used to be able to make friends (even if it wasn't easy), but now things are different, I'm different and I'm older too so it's not high school where everyone tries to make friends anymore.

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

Originally Posted by Baile

My take on that is pretty much the opposite. It's not my responsibility to make anyone happy. My responsibility is to myself, in my case that means being joyful in life, and relating to people in a joyful, positive way. Whether or not they are happy with any of that or with me is entirely on them, I have no interest one way or the other.

Can relating to people in a joyful, positive way, inspire happiness in them? Yes, sure, of course. That goes without saying. And I do that. But again, only because I feel the moral tug to treat people kindly. I don't do it to 'fix' peoples' happiness level.

my take on it is not at all in opposition to yours.
responsibility is for self.
my will is mine, my intentions are mine; these are my responsibilities. i am the source for those.
my sense of things is that we are all served better when people are authentic to themselves...
performing actions, with the hopes to entertain, enlighten,
or whatever need to have a genuineness about them... they need to be from the heart.
[there's nothing wrong with doing good deeds, but without heart, they're rather hollow gestures it seems]

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

Louisa: I agree that judgment is not helpful, and discernment is. I have trouble however with discernment and so other peoples' opinions blur my own discernment because I don't have enough time, clarity and focus to think and figure it all out, yet.. Something that I'm working on. I also think my relative could benefit from thinking of her own discernment, which may override others' judgments of her.

discernment is not a mental process, at least not solely or entirely.
i don't think we need excessive amounts of time to study situations
and determine the nature of things. there are an infinity of facts in existence,
and the number of facts grows continually - we can't possibly comprehend
all nuances of every situation at every moment of every day. the mind is
a fantastic tool, but even its limitless (potential) capacity can become
overtaxed, especially in the "heat of the moment" type situations.
intuition can provide needed clarity in such times.
gut feelings and emotional signals can cue us as to our proper course.
["proper course" means what is in alignment with our best interests here]
the intellect can be fooled by witty words or convincing arguments,
the gut can sense when something is "off" somehow in those instances.
clarity in discernment uses all the available tools we have.

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

judgment is a killer, in my humble opinion.
the Truth of it, as best i understand, is that other peoples'
judgments have no bearing on my reality...
the judgments put into place by others are limits on their being.
in practice, i don't experience that as factual however:
if i want to do certain things, i (often) must meet standards set by others
(this seems a judgment based thing to me).
i must be a certain height to go on a particular ride for example.
i suspect that the fact of the situation is that a judgment of mine has
set that dynamic into play (for me).

much of the discussion seems only vaguely related to "depression",
but i suppose that a free flow of thoughts can be conducive to having
a healthy mind... but (i feel) it's important to come back to the basic idea,
so as to ensure "progress" is being made, in understanding, so that we
don't end on a note of disappointment.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by H:O:R:A:C:E

much of the discussion seems only vaguely related to "depression", but i suppose that a free flow of thoughts can be conducive to having a healthy mind... but (i feel) it's important to come back to the basic idea, so as to ensure "progress" is being made, in understanding, so that we don't end on a note of disappointment.

I'm struggling with these several posts of yours; it seems you are continually judging and critiquing the quality and content of the discussion, and trying to get things "back on track" according to what you think people should be discussing. So in my attempt to understand what this is all about exactly, I'll start with this: What "disappointment" should "we" be worried about? What are you talking about here? I overcame my depression several years ago. What "disappointment" am I supposed to be aware of in all this?

[Louisa]

Hi Horace, Thanks for the thoughts. Personally, I have done a LOT to develop my intuition, yet with the complexity of my problems it is far from adequate for me. I still need to spend a lot of time on overt mental processes. I need to figure out exactly why I don't believe what others say, because even with trusting my intuition, if I have to hear others' contrary opinions, it still seems to delay my process and plant doubt, unless I have a strong inner resolve and reasoning as to why I believe what I believe (which is contrary to what they believe). After a time of affirming my own beliefs, then it doesn't have to be overt and mental and conscious, but at first? Yes, for me, it often does.

I kind of think I need to bow out of the discussion for a little while, and I need to return to what my original intent was - which is, to send others my coping ways for dealing with depression.

For me, my depression has been contributed to, fed by, and fed into a myriad of other issues. All of this has been relevant to my personal depression, because it's like a snowball or domino effect and I can't separate the cause from the effect, the later cause etc.

But I already have stabilized my depression, am not clinically depressed anymore.

I was given a few more ideas to ponder but I think I could go on forever considering the possible effects and the possible side effects and the domino effect and so.. I guess I've had enough to consider for now but I'm going to continue with the original intent - writing my coping methods and sending them to others.

So I won't have much time for this discussion anymore, as my time and focus and ability to spontaneously discuss many things is limited, with a four year old and limited energy.

But I really do appreciate all the thoughts contributed and it's spurred a lot of useful thought related to the subject, in my opinion and for me personally. It's a very complicated and individual subject matter.. What works or is experienced for one person isn't the same as for another, when it comes to depression, and all the possible related things that affect or are affected by and become the chicken and the egg scenario.

[H:O:R:A:C:E]

Originally Posted by Baile

I'm struggling with these several posts of yours; it seems you are continually judging and critiquing the quality and content of the discussion, and trying to get things "back on track" according to what you think people should be discussing. So in my attempt to understand what this is all about exactly, I'll start with this: What "disappointment" should "we" be worried about? What are you talking about here? I overcame my depression several years ago. What "disappointment" am I supposed to be aware of in all this?

wow.
the "back on track" idea was about addressing the OP:
A million ways to cope with depression.
aside from "cynicism", have we identified another method?
wouldn't you find it a disappointment to invest time and effort into doing a thing,
only to later realize you'd not made much if any progress at all?
i used the word "we" because "we" have been participating in this discussion.

i believe that "distraction" can be another useful coping mechanism -
distracting the mind from self destructive thoughts, to virtually anything else.
much was said of "social support" during the discussion, but i'm unconvinced of the efficacy of that avenue.
surrounding oneself with loving energies, and being a conduit for those same energies is great,
but "social support" has a vibe of "finding people to tolerate me" in it (to me).
that latter approach feels 'clingy' and unhealthy.

i have meant no offense.
ya spin the wheel and take a chance.
i believe i did give notice when i joined in on the convo that my
input might seem "antagonistic".
i have not intended antagonism.

peace-out, H:O:R:A:C:E

[Louisa]

I don't like to pick apart words, but to me social support means what it means in the dictionary. Support, as in something that helps you to be well, or to do what you want/need to do. Social, as in from other humans, exchanged with.

To me, it's all positive.

As for love, that might have more positive connotations, but for some people love isn't really what they'd call the kind of friendships they want, need and will be happy with. (In other words maybe they just need people to talk to, care and understand, and "love" might seem a little weighty/deep of a name to put on it? So it is for me.. I just need casual friends who don't judge, who understand. Do we "love" each other? Hmm.. Not always necessarily, except as human beings but more "like" and "support" is what I'd say if I put a name on it. We don't go around saying "I love you!" hehehe (not that that's wrong, just not really my thing).

There is nothing wrong with needing people and needing support and it's not a shameful or clingy thing but a human need for us all. My opinion, anyway.

Just want to make sure that we don't get onto a bunch of judging what we should or shouldn't do or say, because I wanted this thread to be nonjudgmental, and no shoulding.

I didn't want to exchange "shoulds" with others in my messages with them, when I/we share coping methods, nor in this thread. Just ideas, possibilities. With feedback, like "this is helping", or , "this isn't relevant to me", if it gets to be burdensome, because I don't want to burden anyone.

It's possible that what works for me will do no good or not much good for another, and vice versa.

I do appreciate the thoughts, but I feel it's getting into should territory more and more which is about debate and analysis and not what I was interested in when it comes to sharing coping mechanisms.
Sharing but not debate or analysis because that can be hard to even think about, much less articulate.

I will consider, but not have to defend or pick apart things. I don't have the time nor mental energy, and, I feel, I've already found so MANY ways that really work VERY well for me, so I don't need to.

I think it all goes back to, what works for one, doesn't work for another, necessarily and there can be so many different approaches.

And, so many different ways of describing those approaches, which words tend to confuse and lead to endless analysis, but the words aren't really what help me, so much as the core ideas. They are stronger than the word play (which can be useful in moderation, but is not really necessary, in most cases, where the general idea is clear enough, and doesn't need precise wording to "work".. Just my opinion).

[Louisa]

You said,:

A million ways to cope with depression.
aside from "cynicism", have we identified another method?

..

Yes, many!

It's just that depressed people have a tendency to get judged as being "cynical" or "negative", "not trying hard enough", not doing what they "should" do, by people who haven't experienced that level of severe, dysfunctional clinical depression.

It's not just depression, also being too "weird", like I am, which is a co-factor with my depression, that both causes and is caused by the depression, so it's inextricable from it. But if one's too "weird", the world is suddenly filled with problems that normal people don't even begin to understand, and they judge others as being cynical, not trying very hard, etc. Actually, it's not cynical, it's accurately seeing the challenges that are faced (which are way steeper than what normal people have to deal with or believe is possible).

But, we have talked of many other coping ways.

[Louisa]

I said this:

I do appreciate the thoughts, but I feel it's getting into should territory more and more which is about debate and analysis and not what I was interested in when it comes to sharing coping mechanisms.
Sharing but not debate or analysis because that can be hard to even think about, much less articulate.

Actually, I don't feel that all of the debated stuff has been "shoulding".. Some of it is just debate or analysis.

That's fine, and can be helpful, but I just don't do well with it. I am not the fastest thinker at this time, because my brain fog and low energy (and busy as a stay at home full time mom of a four year old).. and, I am not up to the quick pace of back and forth that goes on with forums.

So.. Though some of what was said does seem to me like shoulding, others not so much.

Either way, I guess I just need to drop out of the discussion for the time.

But, I don't think it got off track.

The original intent was for me to share coping ways with others, for the purpose of helping motivate me to send these to my relative, who really may NEED such things, and fast.

The only other purpose that makes sense to me is if I can find other coping ways/issues that need addressing, more urgently than the coping ways I've already found. Otherwise, I just need to get on to that task.

But, I do think that the places this continued discussion went made me see how other issues are important. For example, the "cynicism" issue, and how different things are right or wrong for different people, including "cynicism" as a "coping method" or even lifestyle choice (after all, if one can't be "cured" then maybe it's always coping, for which I personally see no shame,

We all do things differently. To me, learning to deal with my "cynicism" (real assessment of how I'm treated by others, for being depressed and weird, ill in ways they can't believe or be bothered to care about).

This "cynicism" led me to seek other positive coping ways, which have enriched my life so much more than social interactions with people.

Now, I have spirit, I have my own personal philosophy, my passions,.. Do I "need" to not be cynical towards people? No, I only need a few reliable people to have my needed support that I share with them.

Maybe I don't need that - maybe I'll find I can one day lean solely on my own mind and soul and on Spirit? I think it's likely that one day that might be possible, and it's not so unusual - think for example of housebound elderly people whose friends and family are dead or distant. They learn to cope, and some, thrive happily, often, with minimal social life.

It's not impossible, not for everyone, at least.

But, yes, I better bow out now. It's a good time for me to try to heal my ongoing flu/allergy symptoms and think more about how to begin sending my coping ways and ideas to others.

So, thanks so much for all the ideas and support, all.