What I believe full enlightenment is

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

To clarify, I am speaking very generally. Generally finding balance rather than imposing my will, your will, or whomever's will. In my example I phrased it in terms of spiritual and emotional balance, but equally it would encompass balance in the sense of logistics, space (symbolically, e.g., moving toward or away something to find sustainable equilibrium, etc), or what have you.

Thus, to clarify ...my broad example is not limited to any particular type of balance. It is just to give the general flavour.

I am speaking generally as well. Forgive me for misunderstanding and consequently misrepresenting what I thought you were philosophically advocating. My philosophical stance re the 'application' of 'love' is as stated in the post I shared a link to.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by r6r6r

Finite occupied space eternally exists. See as old news, the 1st law of thermodynamics.

There only exists transformation from this state/phase to another state/phase.

Humans fall In and Out of Love ( )

Humans fall In and Out of Bliss ( * )

Humans fall In and Out of Enlightenment ( * * )

The only constant is change /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ eternally.

All that exists is mostly likely encoded inside a black hole and what is inside a black hole is expressed on the surface of a black hole.

Archimedes was the first human to discover that the total area of four great circle planes of the spherical 4-fold cubo{6}-octa{8}hedron{ VE } are equal to, the surface area of the spherical cubo-octahedron{VE}.

See LINK to 87 primary great circles of both 4-fold VE and 5-fold icosa{20}hedron.

Euclidean { straight [ ] /\ }

Conceptually dynamic { curved O ( ) }

Vector { dynamic trajectory ----> has magnitude and direction }


....Space(^v * ^v) i (v^ * v^)Space.....

When we have a substrate that is eternal, then only that which is superimposed upon it is subject to change. The constant remains as a constant - which pretty much accounts for the nomenclature.

Occupied space must have the "space" to be occupied and would be considered as being unoccupied space until it is occupied. Isn't it?

The only thing that would change about the space, would be its degree of occupation and not the total volume of space itself even in the occupied state.

ॐ पूर्णमदः पूर्णमिदं पूर्णात्पूर्णमुदच्यते ।
पूर्णस्य पूर्णमादाय पूर्णमेवावशिष्यते ॥
ॐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ॥

Om Puurnnam-Adah Puurnnam-Idam Puurnnaat-Puurnnam-Udacyate |
Puurnnasya Puurnnam-Aadaaya Puurnnam-Eva-Avashissyate ||
Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||

Meaning:

1: Om, That (Outer World) is Purna (Full with Divine Consciousness); This (Inner World) is also Purna (Full with Divine Consciousness); From Purna is manifested Purna (From the Fullness of Divine Consciousness the World is manifested),
2: Taking Purna from Purna, Purna indeed remains (Because Divine Consciousness is Non-Dual and Infinite),
3: Om, Peace, Peace, Peace.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by Altair

No, I don't have permanent enlightenment or bliss 24/7, and I don't experience I'm one with the entire universe either.

But you can ‘get’ the most basic ‘back to the square one’ - perma formula of “I Amness” running on the background of your thought processes and emotional states – no?

Whether it is the ‘local mind’ or the ‘Big Mind’ - I AM – Ken claims to be the fundamental secret of great traditions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmrh3OaHnQs


Who says the (small or vast) spaciousness of “I amness” cannot be experienced as stillness and/or bliss and/or as peacefulness etc.?


I have got no quarrel with “I amness” – though I personally wouldn’t use that as my most basic back to the square one - perma formula, it makes me feel a bit claustrophobic

So at the risk of sounding like a ‘cultural appropriator’ – I would say that Full Enlightenment is still The Great Mystery - or like the saying: “Life Is not a problem to be solved but a Mystery to be lived/explored”

***
In general:
From seeker to finder and from finder to explorer ….

The permanent spaciousness (or permanent zeroness), enables the unfoldment of impermanent ‘what isness’ (in not-knowing, not-doing) to be explored/experienced more acutely, more intimately, more in detail, because of the objectivity spaciousness brings ….

To explore The Mystery, the paradox in Buddhism could be called ‘Ambiguity’:

In the tantric tradition, discovering that ambiguity is called “discovering the seed syllable.” Ambiguity is called a “seed syllable” when it becomes a starting point rather than a source of problems.

When we accept uncertainty as the working base, then we begin to discover that we do not exist.

We can experience and appreciate the ambiguity as the source of confusion as well as the source of humour. The discovery of nonexistence comes from experiencing both the energy of humour and the heavy “thingness” or form of confusion. But form or thingness does not prove the existence of energy, and energy does not prove the existence of form. So there is no confirmation, just ambiguity. Therefore, we still find ourselves at a loss.
However, at this point that feeling of being lost has the quality of freedom rather than the quality of confusion. This experience of ambiguity is a personal experience rather than an analytical experience.

We begin to realize that actually we do not exist. We do not exist because of our existence: that is the punchline of our ambiguity.

And the world exists because of our nonexistence. We do not exist; therefore the world exists. There is an enormous joke behind the whole thing, a big joke. We might ask, “Who is playing such a joke on us?” It is difficult to say. We do not know who it is at all. We are so uncertain that we might not even have a question mark to put at the end of our sentence.

Nevertheless, that is our purpose in studying tantra: to find out who is the questioner, who set this question up altogether, if anyone at all. The beginner’s point of view is to realize nonexistence, to understand nonexistence, and to experience nonexistence. It is very important for us to realize that sight, smell, colors, emotions, formlessness, and form are all expressions of nobeginning, nonexistence, egolessness. Such nonexistence has to be experienced personally rather than analytically or philosophically. That personal experience is extremely important. In order for us to get into tantra properly, in order to become good tantra students, we have to go through the experience of nonexistence, however frustrating, confusing, or irritating it may seem. Otherwise, what we do will be completely fruitless.

That was Trungpa and then there is Fred waking up to The Mystery or the paradox (which I find quite delightful):
From the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hu0COZPxc4

Most obvious thing in the world …..

*
Since we don’t know what we are and we don’t know what is going on here – is there any possible way that we can know what should be going on here?

Sorry about the looooooooong post.

*

[davidsun]

to your great (IMO) thought-exploration of relevant issues, Sentient.

[muffin]

Originally Posted by sentient

But you can ‘get’ the most basic ‘back to the square one’ - perma formula of “I Amness” running on the background of your thought processes and emotional states – no?

Whether it is the ‘local mind’ or the ‘Big Mind’ - I AM – Ken claims to be the fundamental secret of great traditions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmrh3OaHnQs


Who says the (small or vast) spaciousness of “I amness” cannot be experienced as stillness and/or bliss and/or as peacefulness etc.?


I have got no quarrel with “I amness” – though I personally wouldn’t use that as my most basic back to the square one - perma formula, it makes me feel a bit claustrophobic

So at the risk of sounding like a ‘cultural appropriator’ – I would say that Full Enlightenment is still The Great Mystery - or like the saying: “Life Is not a problem to be solved but a Mystery to be lived/explored”

***
In general:
From seeker to finder and from finder to explorer ….

The permanent spaciousness (or permanent zeroness), enables the unfoldment of impermanent ‘what isness’ (in not-knowing, not-doing) to be explored/experienced more acutely, more intimately, more in detail, because of the objectivity spaciousness brings ….

To explore The Mystery, the paradox in Buddhism could be called ‘Ambiguity’:

That was Trungpa and then there is Fred waking up to The Mystery or the paradox (which I find quite delightful):
From the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hu0COZPxc4



Sorry about the looooooooong post.

*

Good afternoon sentient

You thing that long, then you haven't read half the posts on here.

Some are bedtime stories

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Like I said in one of my previous posts, I just cut off the head of the rattlesnake that showed up in my ladyfriend's (who has pets) backyard. Such Tough Love action does not fit your bill of 'honouring' everyone and everyone 'equally' now, does it?

Don't you know you can learn a lot from snakes?

Once, I put my hand within about 4 inches from a snake's head only to find out it wasn't a gopher
snake but a rattlesnake. But I did not hurt or kill the snake.

Another day I almost stepped on a Mohave rattlesnake. My foot was about 1 foot above
the snake before I realized the snake was there. But I did not hurt or kill the snake.

But then....... on 2 different occasions, I danced with cobras standing up behind me while Japanese ladies
tourist filmed and took pictures of my escapades. I even have a picture somewhere of a cobra a round my
neck with me kissing its hood. I would not think of hurting or killing one of these snakes.

According to some people, animals which include snakes, have a right to life.

Even plants..... which some people believe have a right to life just as we do.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by r6r6r

Our finite, occupied space Universe/God,eternally exist and in constant change (^v^v^)(v^v^v^)(v^v^v)

Who we are today are not who we were yesterday, nor who we will be tommorrow.

We fall in and out of love ( ),

We fall in and out of bliss ( * )

We fall in and out of Englightenment { * * }

We fall in and out of Observed Time { /\/\/\/ }

We fall into because of mass-attraction

We fall into because opposites attract.

We fall into because geodesics are the path of least resistance.

All pushing outward is a resultant of falling inward.

The uterus muscles contract inward and the resultant is fetus/baby is pushed outward

The brain only sends one kind signal to the muscles and that is to contract inward When that signal stops, the muscles expand and relax back to their previous state

Sure, I am an advocate for change as much as you are ... however there is an equilibrium of sorts where the chattering mind, the fears and whatnot settle down and one returns back to a specific state. Perhaps a neutral state would be suffice to say. On a deeper level than that one returns back to source energetically speaking.

None of this is permanent, for like you say we fall in and out of love amongst other things .. but that doesn't negate the fact that there is a return back to source or for one to be at peace after a turbulent experience ..

It's kinda like the yoyo effect or a magnetic effect where we are quite naturally drawn back into ourselves or our natural state if only for a while matters not.


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Hey there Daz :)
I would say...the absence of a storm does not mean balance is present or inherent in the system. Some environments or systems are imbalanced or rarely balanced, accruing wear and damage. In the natural world, natural forces will eventually find some equilibrium. However, regarding sentient, self-aware beings -- individuated aspects of God -- nothing happens automatically.

In the immediate I agree and associating and applying that on a personal level the mad axe man can put down his axe and fall to his knees in remorse, but he is far from being balanced (using your term). Perhaps all this means is that the storm hasn't blown itself out yet.

One particular aspect in my present incarnation was met with something I had to deal with from something that happened 500 odd years ago so for me the fire was still burning from that time onwards.

We can't really use one lifetime as a true measure for what manifests in our lives. This experience that happened to me showed me that there is nothing energetically that one can escape form for use of a better word.

That particular fire is now no longer burning through years of forgiveness work and self reflection, it took me an age to believe that I was responsible for something that happened in another incarnation and in another body in another time frame lol . I was shocked to my core.

If we put the linear time frame to one side and look at the bigger picture, the fire's and the storm's do eventually die out because the energy behind them once gone reflects there being no more fuel in the tank ..


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

However for myself, I can relate. I went through a spiritually and emotionally confusing chaotic period and did emerge calm, centred, and on the path to healing.

For me, I was lacking critical info and insights of a spiritual nature, specifically regarding my own past lives. And yes, I had consciously avoided doing so because I feared having to face what I might find. (In fact, it was far worse than I might have guessed, LOL, as I was murdered repeatedly across most of the lifetimes. Involving the same persons and the same themes of loathing and betrayal leading to murder). It's not really something you can resolve fully on your own, since reconciliation and true healing takes all parties. And who knows why others loathe you, even to the point of wanting you dead? That one I struggled with.

I do chalk up my rather spiritually & emotionally traumatic experiences to that time of spiritual chaos and confusion that we experience prior to gaining insight into our past lives (& having the courage to look into them) AND prior to living from centre, both. In the past, I was particularly vulnerable due to my lack of past-life recall when engaging with certain close soul family members, and they were rather brutally unfeeling and callous with me on many occasions. I am still recovering at heart, to be honest, but I am getting there.

Yes, there is always at a certain point something that happens that will steer the ship back home. Call it divine intelligence, call it magic or simply relate to it as a safety valve build into our sub conscious or our d.n.a.

We somehow always revert back to our true self (and I don't really like using such terms) but even if one passes over from this world with unresolved issues and is not at peace the time will come from that reality.

There are no time limits here, but we will all revert back into Self awareness.

What seems to be the case as I see it and understand it however is that to become Self aware while of the physical plane is most difficult and at some point all will have to resolve their issues from this plane of existence.

It's easier to see the bigger picture from the spirit side of life and say ahh!! that's why this happened and that's why I did that ..

But one has to find the true self within self awareness of this world reality amongst the chaos and the sufferings and the memory loss of who we really are ..

They say that life isn't easy no kidding


x daz x

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Yes, there is always at a certain point something that happens that will steer the ship back home. Call it divine intelligence, call it magic or simply relate to it as a safety valve build into our sub conscious or our d.n.a.

We somehow always revert back to our true self (and I don't really like using such terms) but even if one passes over from this world with unresolved issues and is not at peace the time will come from that reality.

There are no time limits here, but we will all revert back into Self awareness.

What seems to be the case as I see it and understand it however is that to become Self aware while of the physical plane is most difficult and at some point all will have to resolve their issues from this plane of existence.

It's easier to see the bigger picture from the spirit side of life and say ahh!! that's why this happened and that's why I did that ..

But one has to find the true self within self awareness of this world reality amongst the chaos and the sufferings and the memory loss of who we really are ..

They say that life isn't easy no kidding


x daz x

Why is it difficult to become self aware from this world?
The bigger picture is within you for all sides and this reality reflects them as you walk through and are open to them.

When you make peace with all sides as yourself, you bring peace to the totality of experience and others. This forms your completion connected to emptiness/wholeness which is the true state. By emptiness, I mean everything released, from the whole relationship, into clarity of being, because all sides form the whole circle of self.