What I believe full enlightenment is

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by janielee

As usual, our shape shifting Goddess nails it.

SD, do you know it’s possible for someone to be almost wholly enlightened e.g. an emotion such as xyz arises, is soft as a feather (even less), is seem, gone. It’s almost Nibbana, the peace is unthinkable, unexplainable, unimaginable.

Through non cultivation, ignorance and karma build up can someone lose such a “state”, if we can call it that?

Namaste,

JL

"Shape-shifting Goddess" is an excellent way of describing me.

I am glad my posts have brought both amusement as well as information as this was my intention.

I often parody the truth, but must be wary not to suffer the fate of Icarus for my hubris either..it is a fine line I walk (and the administration staff on here are well aware of that too). LOL

I figured I owed everybody as much, seeing as how I lost my "Goddess composure" with running a few days ago. It is difficult to understand the circumstances under which to apply my knowledge and experiences sometimes.... attesting to the fact that I am not fully "enlightened" yet.

The tangents that I allow my mind to follow, tend to be particularly freakish, but this is how I learn new things. Expecting others to keep up with my derailed train-wrecks of thought, is a different matter entirely.

Just Be told God-like to be more "open minded'...my problem is that I am TOO "open minded" at the expense of my closed heart.

Yes, I have had quite a few "mystical experiences" in the past...a hell of a long time in the past and I have been existing off the memories of them for years - and I also understand that I am not the ONLY one who is doing this!

I had more to say, but don't know where it just went .

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by running

my experience of what bliss is and what your searching for are certainly not the same from our discussion. but your outlook i can agree a lot with. thank your for sharing!

Well I am not searching for anything, I am not sure what gave you that idea .. but for sure there is something completely different in regards to what we are speaking of but at times not .. so it is confusing .. but while we continue to share then there is some hope in understanding what's being conveyed ..


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by running

just thought it funny if you were.

since your weren't then i must be confused on your goals. i thought you were saying the outcome your looking for. your kinda bliss is void of emotions or perhaps only ones you feel are good ones.

Don’t worry about it there are many that read what I say and come up with their own ideas about what is written, in fact at times the complete opposite of what I say is what has been concluded. Each to their own on that score why peeps see what they want to see rather than what is actually there. I just had this convo with David and I have had to pull other’s up about it before where things become mighty twisted to suit their own agendas.

To be clear here the bliss I refer too has no room for fear or hate because it would be like God’s Love intoxicating you and then you turn around and say you hate the traffic warden ..

There is either perma-Love-Bliss or there isn’t .. There is no room for hate in perma-Bliss .

People can go through moments of Love and Hate and that is how the cookie crumbles at times, but the moment Hate or Jealousy or Bitterness is expressed where has the perma-Love gone?

Is it taking a back seat while the green eyed monster makes an entrance?


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Da
I agree that none in this realm have that luxury (without the use of heavy intoxicants or other ways of numbing out or disengaging). AND I would further say, for all incarnated beings, that is broadly to our good. Our highest good. Gam zu l'tova.

And...thus, IMO...the state of being fully centred and present is a more right-aligned (truer to self) state, period, for most of us, most of the time.

That is, I don't agree that permabliss -- even if possible -- is an ideal or "higher" state if it requires a disengagement with all that is, with self and others. If it requires a flattening or a silencing of our thoughts and feelings. Equanimity is broadly desirable and necessary but NOT at the expense of killing our compassion and our lovingkindness, nor at the expense of silencing our unique consciousness and contributions. It is a critical balance and everything depends on it.

I agree that Etty Hillesum didn't have permanent bliss devoid of engagement, thought, or feeling. AND Fank God (keeping it clean ) for that. I would say that IMO what she had was a higher state of being, a higher state of humanity. Which allowed her to be fully present to her own suffering and the suffering of others. IMO humanity do not need permabliss at the expense of our humanity...we need ourselves and one another. We need to be present and engaged with ourselves and one another. We too are divine in all we are. And that means there is a real and eternal truth in all we are and think and feel and experience, despite our transitory form. Not one iota will or should be lost. Not one

That is the truth I know. Disclaimer...I was always the insurrectionist and like you, no one will convince me that this is just a waystation to permabliss. All that we are is always here and now, and everything matters. Our joy, our suffering, all of it.

Now what say ye? (BTW who are these ppl touting totalitarian permabliss anyway? Sounds oppressive to me...and boring ;) per my disclaimer...)

Peace & blessings
7L

When we look clearly at these examples given whether it’s Tolle, Etty, Adam’s or the bloke next-door you only have to observe what they do and understand the nature of what is happening and for why it is.

Why for an example are people swatting flies while proclaiming perma-bliss? why are people getting married when they proclaim having no identity or no-one is here ..

I am glad you have understood the gist of what I was saying about sufferings regarding Etty and this is what I am trying to convey to other’s . To swat a fly reflects self that is suffering and in that reflection there is no Love of God present within their current awareness, but that doesn’t mean that the awareness doesn’t come back and go again lol a thousand times .

It’s about understanding what is permanent and what isn’t.

Something that came to mind just now which I think is relevant regarding my experience and it touches upon what I am speaking of. A while after I returned in awareness of the mind-body after my bliss-realisation I became aware of my legs that were numb and had no feeling to them, I had been sitting for hours in a particular position and you could of stuck needles in my legs lol and I wouldn’t of felt them ..

Now one moment there was total absorption of Love-Bliss-God, the next moment there was suffering. You can’t have both at the same time.

I don’t think there is the understanding had for some where suffering is awareness of the self compared to not and this is why I have put a little distance between people thinking that there is perma-bliss while cursing the fly ..

What I am speaking of is miles apart it seems ..

Enlightenment, Bliss, Sufferings, God, Love are all topics that people don’t always agree upon ..

You can understand and see why ..



x dazzle x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Liver and cabbage...YUK! You poor thing.


I am wondering....because of what your mother went through in regards to her own journey on the spiritual path, is it possible that you harbour some deep resentment towards it or towards certain practices? It does sort of sound like you are bitter over it for some reason.

Yes, I fully believe that we are talking about two different experiences here now.

It seems like your experience is more at the level of the head, of total rational awareness, of complete mental satisfaction or else you wouldn't call those who worship God or Guru "groupies". For you see dear daz, it is possible to be totally alone when one is locked in their room OR out in the world in a large group of people...however, one is never truly alone because "ceiling cat" always watches everything you do.

If you only knew all of the unseen spirits right now, occupying the same space you do... watching you bathe, toilet, pleasure yourself..a few years ago, I had just finished doing the latter, when I did an EVP session...the results of that session was particularly embarrassing, but I digress...where was I?

The enlightenment which is experienced within the head must also be tempered with that of the heart and the mind needs to be brought down into that space, but doing so means to completely lose the ego..the "big SELF" or the "little self"...whenever the word "self" is used, I equate that equally with the ego.

I am going ask you a personal question, daz..have you ever been in love? Not the love of a family or friends, but passionate, mind numbing love? doing stupid things love? walking on clouds love? giddy schoolboy love?

If you have, take that experience...now double it..triple it... quadruple it..times it by a thousand...

It is really difficult to describe this...as I also believe it is difficult to describe or discuss or talk about enlightenment and why "Enlightened people" would do such and such...I mean, why does anybody do such and such?

I used to look for motives behind behaviours until I realized I was running a fool's errand...until I realized I was just parroting my own mother's behavior based upon ideals that were around during the middle of the last century..

"people who don't know why they are doing what they do are insane...you should watch out for all those 'insane folk' because they are dangerous, so you should always make it your business to find out why another does what it is they do".

Until I realise that doing this makes you one of the "insane folk" your mother warned you about.

My childhood experience with an enlightened / God realised mum was nothing other than wonderful. Total Love not only from my mum as a person but Love from the universe coming through her.

This is a huge topic because many energies are at play here and I haven’t got the time or energy today to go into it.

There was no resentment towards my mother in any shape or form .

It’s funny because I have just said this to running, people are making things up that are not actually there ..

I am being totally honest here, but granted it’s not always clear for people to make sense of words alone ..

You are mentioning a manner of all things here about what you think I am feeling and what I have experienced and have painted your own picture that isn’t a true reflection at all .

That’s okay, but you either believe what I say or you don’t that is your prerogative but please don’t use that picture image that you have as a basis of truth. I am saying this just for the record in case peeps think differently to what is actually true.

In regards to being drunk in Love, I have and I was going to use this analogy myself to explain how is it possible to feel this Love for another while killing a fly or saying to your loved one that you hate her ..

You don’t do you .. You can’t have this drunken Love feeling while abusing her or making her upset ..

No-one can say they are permanently intoxicated with such a Love while expressing the opposite ..

Now if there is evidence where one is intoxicated forevermore and expresses themselves in the right manner and way forevermore then there is some basis for a permanent state .. but like said how many people do you know of that has been in a permanent state for lets say 50 years or so lol .. How long is permanent for lol?


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by JustBe

In my experience of understanding that which I don’t experience, I like to keep an open mind. How you perceive permanent bliss is an idea based upon the nature of some practices. We are evolving into becoming these experiences and states of being as a lived experience. It’s not going to be uncommon in the near future where the true state leads the lived experience. It’s showing it’s potential through many streams of awakening and individuals.

So perhaps if you open your mind daz, you make space for more potential.

Where did you get that idea from?

What I have been speaking about is beyond practice .

So are you suggesting as an example that if I open my mind I will potentially understand that it's possible for someone who proclaims to be in a perma-bliss state to go around upsetting people?

I am not sure what you are suggesting tbh in regards to opening my mind to what exactly ..


x daz x

[Shivani Devi]

To be clear here the bliss I refer too has no room for fear or hate because it would be like God’s Love intoxicating you and then you turn around and say you hate the traffic warden ..

I must admit to being guilty of this occasionally...

The thing about God is that He/She/It has no ego.

It is very easy (for me at least) to unconditionally love anything which has no ego, which is why I particularly get along with self-realised swamis.

Added to the fact of course, that it takes the unlimited patience of a saint or a God to tolerate me.

Whenever I am in the presence of one who has no ego, I tend to lose my own. Whenever I am in the presence of one who asserts their ego, I tend to assert my own.

For me, this is natural..it is just what happens.

Many may say "how can you love God, but dislike your neighbour?" and I usually say "I don't know, but I do".

Strange that.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

The thing about God is that He/She/It has no ego.

.

This is exactly what I have been pointing out about the fly ..

There is a self reflection had in the moment one expresses irritation for it .

It has nothing to do with the fly at all or Perma-Bliss lol.

There is only a sense of self that is irritated ..

This doesn't come about in Bliss or God's Love .

This is why God's Love isn't present in these moments . If it isn't present then it wasn't permanent .

I am trying to bring this message across, but I am either met with responses that are derogatory or I need to open my mind lol .

The irony at times is deafening .


x daz x

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by God-Like

My childhood experience with an enlightened / God realised mum was nothing other than wonderful. Total Love not only from my mum as a person but Love from the universe coming through her.

This is a huge topic because many energies are at play here and I haven’t got the time or energy today to go into it.

There was no resentment towards my mother in any shape or form .

It’s funny because I have just said this to running, people are making things up that are not actually there ..

I am being totally honest here, but granted it’s not always clear for people to make sense of words alone ..

You are mentioning a manner of all things here about what you think I am feeling and what I have experienced and have painted your own picture that isn’t a true reflection at all .

That’s okay, but you either believe what I say or you don’t that is your prerogative but please don’t use that picture image that you have as a basis of truth. I am staying this just for the record in case peeps think differently to what is actually true.

In regards to being drunk in Love, I have and I was going to use this analogy myself to explain how is it possible to feel this Love for another while killing a fly or saying to your loved one that you hate her ..

You don’t do you .. You can’t have this drunken Love feeling while abusing her or making her upset ..

No-one can say they are permanently intoxicated with such a Love while expressing the opposite ..

Now if there is evidence where one is intoxicated forevermore and expresses themselves in the right manner and way forevermore then there is some basis for a permanent state .. but like said how many people do you know of that has been in a permanent sate for lets say 50 years or so lol ..


x daz x

I am not "making things up".

I just proposed an idea, it was up to you to either agree with it or refute it, which you have kindly done. Thank you.

I am just wondering why you appear to be so defensive all the time? What could have happened in your past or in your life to make you that way?

Perhaps you love liver and cabbage...

It is funny how perceptions work..you are perceiving what I am perceiving about what it is that you perceive it is that I am perceiving...and in the end, all actuality becomes lost in the translation..

Jay Shetty said something...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2nzBWfjdHcI

There just seems to be something holding you back...this is my perception.

I know what is holding me back, lack of discipline, motivation and purpose. I have learned to identify that within myself..I don't need anyone to TELL me that.

Don't take my perceptions at face value, just look within and ask yourself the questions you are asking others...why isn't the bliss permanent? Why do people kill flies?

If you are open to receiving those answers (which are only for YOU), you will. If you don't get any answers, maybe you either need to work on opening yourself up more to the universe, or else you just don't want to hear them.

That is basically all there is to it.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by JustBe

In my experience of understanding that which I don’t experience, I like to keep an open mind.

Now, that's funny!