"every man occupies just that position in society which he is qualified to occupy"

[baro-san]

From Edward C. Randall's 1917 book "The Dead Have Never Died"

... every man occupies just that position in society which he is qualified to occupy . That must be so, or the law of cause and effect would be a failure

I found this quote thought provoking ... If we karmically pay for whatever we think, desire, do, it means that sometimes we have to have unhappy, difficult lives.

Then, trying to better someone else's life, to even out people's conditions and opportunities ... Can it be accomplished? Is it a desirable endeavour? Do we try to interfere in something we don't understand, and in a way that is counterproductive to both the helper and the helpee?

How does "love everybody" figure into this? Just love them, but let them carry their burdens?

[baro-san]

This kind of reminds of Peter's Principle:

In any hierarchy, each individual rises to his own level of incompetence, and then remains there

[Silver]

It is an interesting thing to study - but who says the law of cause and effect is really a solid law? I mean, with all the variables in life, I think (XD) I'm glad to learn at my age, that nothing really makes much sense, and there's little if anything to gain, by studying stuff in life. Except maybe for entertainment purposes. I look back and believe I wasted far too much time trying to make sense of a lot of things.

Sounds vaguely a restatement of the Peter Principle:

Managers rise to their level of incompetence then stop being promoted.

The idea surrounds choosing candidates for a promotion based on their performance in their current role, not on their abilities to perform the intended job.
Basis is observation. It means they aren't qualified to occupy the role.



♥

Originally Posted by Silver

It is an interesting thing to study - but who says the law of cause and effect is really a solid law? I mean, with all the variables in life, I think (XD) I'm glad to learn at my age, that nothing really makes much sense, and there's little if anything to gain, by studying stuff in life. Except maybe for entertainment purposes. I look back and believe I wasted far too much time trying to make sense of a lot of things.

I reckon this is a valid point (about cause and effect). A simplistic answer but
as anyone who has to make decisions knows, they sometimes proceed on
incomplete information particularly about the future and other imponderable. Thus
tomorrow they may not be qualified to hold their position. I'm sure the world
is laden with such unfortunates.

So, yes, the result of a whimsical decision is strictly "cause and effect" but a
different person having to make the same decision may go a different way and
the outcome may qualify them for the role - or not.

♥

[baro-san]

I'm interested more in opinions about the quote from Randall's book and its practical implications.

Obviously one can question the "solidity of the law of cause and effect", especially in the light of the purported "time travel" in physical, and "no time" in non-physical, but I think that in that quote the author was talking in terms of karma caused by actions in physical, and thought forms in non-physical.

[Busby]

Originally Posted by baro-san

From Edward C. Randall's 1917 book "The Dead Have Never Died"

I found this quote thought provoking ... If we karmically pay for whatever we think, desire, do, it means that sometimes we have to have unhappy, difficult lives.

Then, trying to better someone else's life, to even out people's conditions and opportunities ... Can it be accomplished? Is it a desirable endeavour? Do we try to interfere in something we don't understand, and in a way that is counterproductive to both the helper and the helpee?

How does "love everybody" figure into this? Just love them, but let them carry their burdens?

I contend that Karma and evolution are the same thing. It's just that we use the two words not realising it. Darwin thus discovered the physical attributes of Karma.
And it's quite simple. The person who you are, the conditions in which you live, your physical appearance, everything about you including where you are and whan you were born is the result of milleniums of cause and effect. The next minute of your life is determined by what you do now and the result is due to the way you think and act.
Become aware of your existence in the space which surrounds you and you will be able to define yourself.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Busby

Become aware of your existence in the space which surrounds you and you will be able to define yourself.

Brilliant. Yes, karma is misunderstood. People imagine there's a punishment -- or in this case, suppression -- aspect to it. The reason has much to do with a kind "morning after" consciousness transition: Pisces Age religious conceptualizing and belief still lingers as Aquarian Age understanding has yet to take hold completely.

Creation is evolving; likewise spiritual laws evolve as well. Individual free will has been introduced into the stream of collective human evolution. It is free will that now supersedes these older spiritual laws of karma or cause and effect. People do not occupy the position in society they are qualified for. They occupy the position they freely choose to occupy. Likewise they are free to choose to change the position they occupy, at any time.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by baro-san

This kind of reminds of .... every man occupies just that position is society which he is qualified to occupy...

Not quite an accurate statement as it was presented to me but terrific guidance and awareness. This has always been relayed to me a person in a position may not be qualified for a position they hold unable to be effective in the position held as one advances. People reach their limits of ability. More and more responsibility and demands are part of the job as well as power and authority of the position. There is a limit when they become overwhelmed and fail. For instance, a person may be a very good supervisor but not a good manager. Such a promotion to manager was based on expectation they would succeed in a position of greater responsibility. There are different expectations, demands of the job, and the requirement imposed by the position and by the authority above them. A person can be a good worker be a great worker but not be a good supervisor. This is why you see a lot of education in larger companies when people are promoted. Each position has their role. So yeah cause and effect do apply. Everyone wants to advance but with that it does not remain the same. More $$$$ more risk. "Just" that position is temporary and not permanent as implied by the person and observed through promotion. Every position also has a role that must by filled. If one prepares themselves then one changes the limit.


You know, many times I've heard science and spirituality don't go hand and hand and people have questioned that. You know, you also find many times business does not fit well either.

[FallingLeaves]

the taoists might say something like:

the sage makes himself qualified for the lowest positions in life
thus he can be safely trusted with the highest.