teh apple and the giant ego

Originally Posted by hybrid

yeah, like replace the word "our egos" with the word " our problems", then work it out the same way to make our problems go away.

If one works out one's problems the same way, regardless of whether one calls it ego or problems,
then what's the problem with using the label, ego?
Nothing, it's when a person sees Ego as more than just a label.
Or, when a person cannot distinguish between a label and the thing the label is pointing to. The meaning behind the name.

or forget about definitions.
just focus inwardly to this sense of I we have inside. hold on to it and looked intensely, if one has the skill to do that. then discover for one's self the manner of its existence.

Yes, I agree completely with the self observation, but what some people are concluding when they look inside is,
I does not exist or ego and or "I" as they call it, is false self.
They look inside and that's what they conclude.

ps. i noticed with such a lengthy post the OP talks about the existence of "I" in a "a priori" manner. iow ...
1. it is always assumed to have existed without the benefit of questioning it.
2. it is assumed to be natural, self evident and therefore beyond the usual scope of inquiry.
3. therefore to some people - the "I" is a sacred cow. untouchable and beyond question.

Is this what wrapping a word in "" means? Is this why these people use "I" instead of I?
~checks dictionary~
a priori:
adjective:
1: Involving deductive reasoning from a general principle to a necessary effect; not supported by fact.
2: Based on hypothesis or theory rather than experiment.
adverb:
Derived by logic, without observed facts.
Would you please explain the similarity, or differences between your statements of a priori and the dictionary definitions.
Because the dictionary definitions means to me that when a person uses "I" they are concluding that I exists but have no proof of it.

Originally Posted by Perspective

But I have experienced my own psyche in segregated ways...

Then unite them, heal those rifts and become a whole person.

Sometimes, my emotions get the best of me...

Don't you like giving your best? Score ! ~joyful laughter~

Other times I'm so focused on logic to the exclusion of all else.

Imbalance.

There are other aspects of life that need incorporating, balancing or harmonizing...
such as:
Physical (body health),
Social (relating with others),
Practical (home & car up-keep),
Financial (we've got to eat etc.)
& Spiritual (which is so smiliar to emotional).

Then incorporate, balance and harmonise them all...problems solved. Just don't expect it to happen overnight.
One thing at a time, one step at a time.
And before you know, that big ol' fat ol' elephant is now just a pile of bones and closeby in the foreground are some tapirs.
In the foreground, a prehistoric ape like being grabs one of these bone, stares at it and starts wacking the other bones.
One time, a bone flies up and hits him in the face, but he doesn't care, he's having fun times hitting these bones.
Then he's hitting the tapirs..BOOM, Brett Farve !

If one gets out of wack, then I feel it.
Yet when I manage to juggle them all (& it often feels just like juggling) - then I feel more alive & whole.
I think (lol) intution kind-of helps orchestrate it all... along with thought. lol
I consider ego to be the thinking part of us...
& inner self/spirit to be the intuitive part of us.
And ideally both work in harmony to live a full life.

And there's your own helpful warning system Perspective.
When you feel out of wack, you are alerting yourself that something needs adjusting.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Perspective

I agree, TzuJanLi. The idea of the ego is just an idea. We each have our own perspective & oppinion about it, as we do with spirituality.

But I have experienced my own psyche in segregated ways...
Sometimes, my emotions get the best of me...
Other times I'm so focused on logic to the exclusion of all else.

I guess it's about doing it in the way that works best.

There are other aspects of life that need incorporating, balancing or harmonizing...
such as:
Physical (body health),
Social (relating with others),
Practical (home & car up-keep),
Financial (we've got to eat etc.)
& Spiritual (which is so smiliar to emotional).

If one gets out of wack, then I feel it.
Yet when I manage to juggle them all (& it often feels just like juggling) - then I feel more alive & whole.
I think (lol) intution kind-of helps orchestrate it all... along with thought. lol
I consider ego to be the thinking part of us...
& inner self/spirit to be the intuitive part of us.
And ideally both work in harmony to live a full life.

[hybrid]

Originally Posted by Alternate Carpark

Because the dictionary definitions means to me that when a person uses "I" they are concluding that I exists but have no proof of it.

you've got it.
i exist is a statement of pure abstraction.

i think
therefore
i exist

[Perspective]

Originally Posted by Alternate Carpark

Don't you like giving your best? Score ! ~joyful laughter~

lol Yeah, my best drama performance!

Then incorporate, balance and harmonise them all...problems solved. Just don't expect it to happen overnight.
One thing at a time, one step at a time.
And before you know, that big ol' fat ol' elephant is now just a pile of bones and closeby in the foreground are some tapirs.
In the foreground, a prehistoric ape like being grabs one of these bone, stares at it and starts wacking the other bones.
One time, a bone flies up and hits him in the face, but he doesn't care, he's having fun times hitting these bones.
Then he's hitting the tapirs..BOOM, Brett Farve !

lol I googled Brett Farve & came up with a Football Quarter Back. (I'm sure it's not what you intended but I'm sneakily running with it anyway. lol)
I also had to look up tapirs... wow, AC - you give a heck of an "object" lesson!
Really, it makes it more fun! If you ever direct a movie, I want to see it!

And there's your own helpful warning system Perspective.
When you feel out of wack, you are alerting yourself that something needs adjusting.

Thanks, AC.
I think (or is it I feel?) that intuition & thought orchestrate it all... including the elephant, quarterback, apes & tapirs.

Originally Posted by hybrid

you've got it.
i exist is a statement of pure abstraction.

i think
therefore
i exist

Actually, I don't get it.

In your view, does I exist or not?

Originally Posted by Perspective

lol Yeah, my best drama performance! lol I googled Brett Farve & came up with a Football Quarter Back. (I'm sure it's not what you intended but I'm sneakily running with it anyway. lol)
I also had to look up tapirs... wow, AC - you give a heck of an "object" lesson!
Really, it makes it more fun! If you ever direct a movie, I want to see it! Thanks, AC.
I think (or is it I feel?) that intuition & thought orchestrate it all... including the elephant, quarterback, apes & tapirs.

Well the elephant thing was from the other thread, and then when I saw the bones I saw the scene from 2001 A Space Oddyssy,
the one with the monkey man hitting bones then the tapirs and the Brett Farve was from a Family Guy episode.
Everything is connected !

Saw this the other day while watching What The Bleep.

The classics: Body ,soul and spirit.
Three levels of living, of states or foundations to which one interacts within reality.

Person: Body. Soul. Spirit.
Apple: Skin. Flesh. Core.

Body is the level of the emotions...feelings.
One feels their way around.
I feel angry, I will react in anger toward that which I am angry.
I later regret my actions, but because I was living from the emotional level, all my actions and decisions are controled by my emotions.
I may have thoughts that tell me not to do it, but the emotions are the ruler, the driver of my life.

When the emotions subside, the anger, then regret comes to the fore because
I am now able to really hear and consider the thoughts that were telling me to not do that thing.
This is the state where the guiding principle of 'run from pain, run toward pleasure' is most prevalent.

Those thoughts mixed with the feelings came from the next level...the soul level.
This is the level of rational thought, of deductive reasoning, of considering the pros and cons of each plan of action.
These two levels have a grey area where the two meet.
One is hurt and wants to relatiate.
At one end of the scale, one is able to convince oneself that this is the logical course of action.
Go deeper into the soul however, and one finds that anger fueled destructive/hurtful intended actions are not logical.

In one sense, this is a more mature level than the emotional level.
They are not two separate levels.
One starts off at pure emotion, and as one goes deeper into self, rational thought begins to come to the fore.
Keep going and emotion reduces and rational/logical thought becomes the dominant state of how one conducts oneself in life.
Inbetween these two extremes are various percentages of a mixture of both emotion and rational/logical thought.

At the deeper end of the soul, one is no longer controled by their emotions.
If one becomes angry, one does not relatiate.
The emotions is still there, but one does not make decisions based on them any more.
One chooses to calm down and think about the situation, the consequences, the long term effects.
One begins to respond instead of react.
One begins to see that emotions are there to aid in one's understanding of self and reality and are not there to control one's life.
One now thinks, decides and acts from one's rational/logical thoughts...for the benefit of self and others.

Then there is the spirit.
It can be Intuition, pure self, godness, oneness, the formless, silence, etc.
The supposed centre of one's being, the core, the place of one's being where there is infinite creative potential.
The place where love radiates out from.

This level communicates and expresses differently from the other two.
The emotional level is sensory, feelings.. you feel...there is sensation.
The soul level is thought, reasoning, deducing, logic, looking into things, understanding.

The spirit level is...I have no idea what it is. But when I look into it, or when I am in that state, there is silence.
I am silent because I am in awe. It is so vast that when trying to find words to describe it, none are sufficient.
The only logical thing one can do is shutup and marvel.

I can only conjecture that from this spirit level, eminates love, and that this thing we try to grasp/define, this love, is the creative energy that creates life, existance, reality.
Even so, this conjecturing that it is love, gets in the way of what it really is.
But love is the closest word I can come up with.
Words can only point one in the general direction. "Hey check this out" type thing.
As soon as I try to define it, I lose sight of it.

But if I choose to live from that state, the definitions are unnecessary because my life, my attitude, my actions, my words, are expressions of love.
I do not need to define it, I simply need to emit it, live it, express it.
Wholeness/healing comes when all three levels are united, are in unison, are working as one.
Yes, technically there is only one self, but the self created dysfunctions have produced a state of disunity.
I have no proof that anything I have said, how I percieve the mechanisms of it, is truth or that is how reality is.

What I do know is I have lived without love and I now live with love as the foundation.
Love is my understanding. This is what I stand on. It is the platform underneath me that energises me, the source of my life.

I have lived in a deeply fragmented state, in turmoil, in pain, bewildered, fearful, purposeless, etc.
As I journey toward what I regard as my centre, I am slowly increasing in profound peace, joy, understanding and most importantly of all, love for all of existance.
That's proof enough for me at this particular part of my journey.

As an explorer, I do not bother with notions of right and wrong, truth and falsities.
I leave that to the academics, the laywers, the politicians. I simply remain open and off I go exploring.
Life is a most remarkable adventure, if you're willing to get into it.

[Swami Chihuahuananda]

my wife's incoming message from last week was

"it's not about you"

(her, not me... it's not about her , it's not not about me , neither is it about me . it's not about she or me )

which led to

"the universe takes care of everything "
"all is exactly as it should be"

and back around to

"personal evolution is a given. this is about something much bigger"

which makes me ask 'my' self

"how do ya like them apples?"


Dar