How to kiss the joy as it flies?

[BlueSky]

Just thought I'd share this. It's nice to hear what those considered to be masters think.

J. Krishnamurti on helping others:

Question: I have been a member of a Gurdjieff group. I find it has given me a background to better understanding of what you are saying. Should I continue with such a group in order possibly to help others, as I was helped? Or does a group make for fragmentation?

Jiddu Krishnamurti - This is an extraordinary idea, this idea of helping others, as though you have comprehension, beauty, love and truth, the whole world of order, and that great immense sense of wholeness. If you have that you do not talk about helping others.

Why do we want to belong to something? - belong to some sect, some group, some religious body? Is it because it gives us strength? Is it that we cannot stand alone? The word `alone' means all one.

Is it that we need encouragement, need somebody to tell us this is the right way? The questioner says: As I belong to a certain group, it has helped me to understand you.

Understand what? Me? Do please look at it. Understand what we are talking about? Do we need interpreters to understand what we are talking about? - to be kind, to love, to have no sense of nationality?

Does it need anybody to tell us that? Why do we depend on others, whether the other be an image in a church, in a temple or mosque, or the preacher, the psychologists?

Why do we depend on others? If we do depend on others psychologically we become secondhand people, which we are.

The whole history of mankind is in us - the story of mankind is not in books except for outward things; the whole history is here. And we do not know how to read it. You understand what I am saying? You are the book. But when you read the book as a reader it has no meaning.


But if you are the book and the book is showing you, telling you the story, then you will not depend on a single person, you will be a light unto yourself. But we are all waiting for a match, the fire of another, to kindle the light. Perhaps that is why you are all here. And that is where the tragedy lies, because we cannot see clearly for ourselves. Before we help others we have to see clearly, for God's sake! It is like the blind leading the blind.

Interesting WhiteShaman except that it doesn't really apply here because people have chosen to join and participate in this forum AND interact, i.e. start threads with a view to having a discussion/feedback and....dare I use the dreaded word - help!?

[Xan]

Originally Posted by Neville

Did you manage to let go of all you're grief ,pain and sorrow? Does that deserve a well done or a Are you sure that such a complete exorcism of those things which defined you in you're human condition ,is good for you?

I managed, by grace, to discover my inner being which has no pain, grief and sorrow... and come to live from and as this continuously.

Feelings like that, as well as compassion for others who are suffering, come up now and then but they don't take over the whole of my reality.

And yes... this way of being is so good for me I can't even tell you.


Xan

[Xan]

Originally Posted by Gem

... but others are pretending they were mentors.

While still others are pretending they know someone else's motivations.

It's a natural way of life to help each other, once we've passed beyond our instinctual self-centeredness. How each of us helps is our own business, and the kind of help that can be received also varies. What one person sees as condescending can equally be taken as support, seen from another point of view.

As I see it, accepting each other as we are is the most helpful of all.


Xan

Originally Posted by Xan

I managed, by grace, to discover my inner being which has no pain, grief and sorrow... and come to live from and as this continuously.

Feelings like that, as well as compassion for others who are suffering, come up now and then but they don't take over the whole of my reality.

And yes... this way of being is so good for me I can't even tell you.

To know that this is possible, and to be shown ways in which to make it possible, is indeed a big help.

Originally Posted by Gem

Just remember, you said it. It comes from you. Others pretend they are validating you from a position above, but I know it's yours.

I still think this is a very good point. Ultimately the truth always comes from within. If others do help, it is because their words resonate with what is within, or because it is close to being discovered within. I have been led by my heart for too long now to start following mentors like a helpless student, but anyone can help show you the way if only you are humble enough to put egoic matters to one side.

Even the spiritually immature, for want of a better term, can teach us a so much if we know how to learn from them. They would never know, mind you. This truth still comes from within.

[Xan]

ha ha, peacegarden... I used to say, we can gain spiritual understanding from Mickey Mouse movies if we are open.


Xan

Originally Posted by Xan

ha ha, peacegarden... I used to say, we can gain spiritual understanding from Mickey Mouse movies if we are open.


Xan

It's true! .

[Gem]

Originally Posted by peacegarden

To know that this is possible, and to be shown ways in which to make it possible, is indeed a big help.



I still think this is a very good point. Ultimately the truth always comes from within. If others do help, it is because their words resonate with what is within, or because it is close to being discovered within. I have been led by my heart for too long now to start following mentors like a helpless student, but anyone can help show you the way if only you are humble enough to put egoic matters to one side.

Even the spiritually immature, for want of a better term, can teach us a so much if we know how to learn from them. They would never know, mind you. This truth still comes from within.

I know you say what you mean and that others think they validate you or that they led you to say what you do, but I hear it as though it's yours and yours alone. You ain't no second hand human being.

Originally Posted by Gem

I know you say what you mean and that others think they validate you or that they led you to say what you do, but I hear it as though it's yours and yours alone. You ain't no second hand human being.

That's pretty interesting! I think I can see what you're saying.