Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Badcopyinc

Quite the opposite.

What you give attention to grows.
This is fact proven during the election of trump.
This fact also proven by statistics each election.
Hence the saying any press is good press.
Trump had the most attention be it bad or good he had both sides
Focused on himself. Wise man.

When you focus on there being a over abundance of poor
Your adding fuel to that fire. When you focus on the sick and tired
You add growth to that with your energy.

If you want to fight poverty than focus on a solution. Focus on creating more jobs that only hire homeless and focus on creating centers that promote true health.

What is being twisted to fit an agenda on this thread is still true.

DONT FOCUS ON THE PROBLEM. FOCUS ON THE SOLUTION!

In other words. Don’t focus on sickness and poverty, focus on wealth and health.

Tell that to someone who is being sexually abused.

Tell that to someone with an excruciatingly painful disease.

Tell that to someone with a life changing disability.

Empowerment is positive - false hope is not.

There were no good election candidates - Ron Paul was one a few years ago.

People went for the lesser of two evils which is an atrocious situation to be in.

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Originally Posted by Raziel

Tell that to someone who is being sexually abused.

Tell that to someone with an excruciatingly painful disease.

Tell that to someone with a life changing disability.

Empowerment is positive - false hope is not.

There were no good election candidates - Ron Paul was one a few years ago.

People went for the lesser of two evils which is an atrocious situation to be in.

.

You’re right there is a problem for every solution.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Badcopyinc

You’re right there is a problem for every solution.

Snark snark,

None of those things I highlighted are the fault of those effected.

That's irrefutable.

My response was in relation to your post appearing to support the following:

Originally Posted by iamthat

Does the LOA blame the poor and abused for their own misery? Or does it simply acknowledge that we are each responsible on some deep level for our circumstances?

Ideally we look at causes & solutions.

Sometimes it's complicated i.e abuse.

Kindness & empathy I think we can all agree are the best way to tackle situations - which start with imagining better results.

Problems double however when better results are promised for merely wishing things away.

I'm sure the abused or the suffering ALREADY thought of & tried that one ...

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[lemex]

Originally Posted by Raziel

Tell that to someone with an excruciatingly painful disease.

Empowerment is positive - false hope is not.

Me, I myself encourage positive thinking and honestly, people have accomplished the same kinds of manifesting and results matching those who practice LoA principles for instance and understand the metaphysics of it. So have faith, everyone can reach what they see imo themselves. Individual can accomplish far more then they think (they can't). Now I have to admit this arises in form from my past experiences and now.

I was going to write about this before as an example but didn't but now that you mention it we all have heard about people who appear to cure themselves. In fact the body has this ability of healing and does it, it manifests it does it not. We've heard of it and maybe 1 or 2 have seen it. People have been able to heal themselves while receiving treatment? Actually the information is there within nature. Consciously the greatest healing humans do is when they sleep. The most powerful healing occurs when we sleep when the thinking (conscious) side of us says good night. The subconscious is said to operate forefront, unlike our conscious side which in a way interferes with the subconscious. To the subconscious what it does and what information is there believes, to it, it is true. It is the conscious side that say it is untrue, yet the body performs. At night, the subconscious comes forward and does its work. What if instead of 2 levels of thought they were balanced. Meditation is a good way of doing this but for me I know my conscious logic said argue. In fact the mind is set up that way, isn't it, that's why it must be practiced. Even in the smallest thing I've heard I can't. Here I'm just pointing out some barriers to it. What if we could get rid of the barriers. The mind interferes with itself. As soon as you think of one thing another thought springs up of another issue or something else. What if a person could drop their logic, it doesn't have to be 100% but see other possibilities, be at 75% or 50%. The subconscious is at 100% and our conscious is at another 100% ($), like yin and yang. Is there a battle going on. What if one could tap into it. In truth, I've heard far too much around me in my environment I can't do it only to learn it was a myth of perception. There is a fine line between failure and success. QM imo has some very good thoughts of reality? Thoughts are the observer. How it forms. Reality has always been likely (weighted) to happen, the point of likelihood. Positive affirmation is a good tool, negativity from the outside inside where people tell each other they can't is what I'm familiar with but have also been exposed to what is not familiar, so I wonder. I'm an agnostic here ....lol. Imo, in this life humans are far too negative in their teachings and maybe it is time for a (formal) change of being positive and truth with good teachers.
What if we could drop the barriers, then try, then do.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by lemex

Me, I myself encourage positive thinking and honestly, people have accomplished the same kinds of manifesting and results matching those who practice LoA principles for instance and understand the metaphysics of it. So have faith, everyone can reach what they see imo themselves. Individual can accomplish far more then they think (they can't). Now I have to admit this arises in form from my past experiences and now.

I'm an agnostic here ....lol. Imo, in this life humans are far too negative in their teachings and maybe it is time for a (formal) change of being positive and truth with good teachers.
What if we could drop the barriers, then try, then do.

The power of the positive isn't really what the OP alludes to. I think perhaps there are two or three camps posting within the thread.

One camp seems to believe that anything can be manifested if we try hard enough.

I defer to the OP as an answer to this:

2. Why would people who overestimate their ability fail?

If we were to use a unicorn as an example you can't think one into existence but it may be possible to genetically engineer one at some point in the future.

So for me - poof it's there is fantasy so far but imagination is the origin of creation.

Those insisting those who suffer are somehow always responsible is pretty cruel to me.

I don't disagree with your points but I do disagree with theirs.

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[Deigon Mifftcus]

Regarding unicorns, just a thought...

From a 2017 article on sciencemag.com titled, "Quantum experiment in space confirms that reality is what you make it", they stated, "An odd space experiment has confirmed that, as quantum mechanics says, reality is what you choose it to be."

If a physicist tells you "as quantum mechanics says, reality is what you choose it to be" and you ask him if he can personally turn into or manifest a unicorn and he tells you no, does that prove that quantum mechanics is fantasy?

I see you mention Alcoholics Anonymous and a quote from Narcotics Anonymous in another thread. When AA was born they used three main spiritual texts and one of the books was "Sermon on the Mount" written in 1938 by Emmet Fox. Emmet Fox was a New Thought leader in the early part of the 20th century.

“Whatever you experience in your life is really but the outpicturing of your own thoughts and beliefs. Now, you can change these thoughts and beliefs, and then the outer picture must change too. The outer picture cannot change until you change your thought.”
-- Emmet Fox

When ego/personality begins to fade by non judgment and surrendering and we begin to rise spiritually, we naturally embody love, compassion, understanding, acceptance, patience and our actions show it. Helping and giving to others becomes second nature. If you see someone that is suffering you don't tell them it's all their fault for believing poorly. Instead you help as best you can at the given moment and then you use LOA, manifesting on their behalf to visualize/create for them better circumstances, a healing, the ability to be able to help themselves and so on. I did this for my friend with a negative disposition. I saw for her that her life would change for the better and it absolutely did.

Daily responsibilities do not disappear they just become easier and life seems to flow in your direction the higher you rise up because you no longer fight against yourself or fight against life. Instead you surrender to life and life carries you along with grace. Challenges still come but they no longer have the same effect. Also as you begin to rise up you gain a broader perspective. You see things that you couldn't see before because you were mentally blocked and unconscious to it. You see that you do create your own reality and reality is not as solid as it appears. All these are the effects of residing in higher levels of consciousness/awareness. That's been my experience anyway.

[Deigon Mifftcus]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

There's more to my story obviously but of little interest to people here.

That's the basis and may explain my disenchantment with much New Age outpouring. It seems to try to make bits and pieces from traditions easy for those in need of easy answers.

There's a well-known author who peddles this LoA snake oil. I'm not allowed to mention his name here for reason of my comment but an adept hired by The Guardian tore him apart, claiming he couldn't possibly believe what he's expecting others to believe (through his books etc).

I can't really apologise for saying so because it patently isn't true. Just fanciful romanticising to me, one of these "let's make you feel better" strategies for those down in the world and don't like effort.

In a post on the LoA section I spoke of wanting a couple of Neumann microphones. I could sit there creating them all I liked but they weren't going to appear so I took the helm, went up to GAK's shop and bought them with my debit card. Ok you could say that was LoA at work because I did manifest them. But only because I had the external resource to do so. How long do you imagine it would take to get the goods in my hand by creating reality to bring them to me if I hadn't that resource?

Your story is very interesting! Thanks for sharing what you did. I understand now why you are disenchanted with the New Age outpouring and LOA. I agree it's extremely diluted from the traditions. If someone is a self help junky and just likes reading LOA to make them feel better I suppose there are worse things, but to actually apply it is difficult. First, to even believe that LOA is possible is nearly impossible to most I would imagine. Second, if you are able to believe LOA is true and prove for yourself that it works you will see how difficult it is. To absolutely believe in something with an absolute knowing that you will receive it with no doubts whatsoever while trying not to let the negative drag you back down into doubt can be extremely difficult.

Magick might be easier because it takes you step by step through the process in detail. However some of the well known teachers will tell you that the rituals are to be eventually discarded. That they are only tools to bypass the filters and blockages of the conscious mind in order to directly affect the subconscious. Basically when you can't reach a higher state and believe in a thing on your own the ritual helps overcome that.

Length of time to get two microphones without the resources? If you are unsure about law of attraction then possibly never. If you have prior experience with manifesting and you are confident, then probably anywhere from days to months.

[meetjazz]

I would say, no - we definitely do not create entire reality.There are obvious laws to which we are bound. I would argue that we are co-creators of our reality, as an individual & as an society as a larger orchester, while our own individual impact is much bigger on a society & nature as we would like to hear or believe it. In ''modern spirituality'' there gives beliefs as ''law of attraction,...'' which from my point of view only reflects the obsession with individuality, egoism,...me, me, me, always in the center of everything,..while there is no notion of any kind of social responsibility, social, nature,.. impact,..or whatever,..leave the poor alone,..they own problem, bad karma,..I think it's an reflection of what Martin Luther King have said, '' poverty of the spirit,'' in which our culture is. Personally, I have old fashion way ''spiritual life'' in a sense that I believe in a God, spirit world,..it's not modern anymore, but well it works, it helps me a lot to live with the unknown future,...and the simple fact that I can't control everything,....but still be relax,..and somehow try to make my best of the time that is given to me.

[Shivani Devi]

I also have the idea that our beliefs create how we react to situations, which may, in turn, create our individual realities according to such reactions.

This was beautifully illustrated yesterday, when I took my wheelchair-bound mother for a walk...a 2km downhill walk to the local thrift shop.

We arrived there and she bought bags of cheap clothing, a blow-up mattress, a large photo frame, a garden hose with fittings...and I bought a second-hand digital video camera with attachments, a large antique teddy bear and a huge box full of toiletries, body lotions, scrubs etc.

After buying them, I said to mum that I would run back home and bring the car and pick her up with all this stuff...I would be about 15-20 minutes and she's like "why can't you carry all of it and push me uphill back home?...you can do it!...I know you can!".

I was like "screw that! why struggle unnecessarily when there is a much easier and rational way of doing things which requires less effort, less stress and less eventual frustration in the long run?" and she says "so you can have the satisfaction of accomplishment...of saying "I achieved something" after struggling for so long and so hard...putting yourself through torment and hell is its own reward".

I simply said "yes, but you will not be putting yourself through the trials of Sisyphus here, that task will fall on me and I prefer doing things the easy way, if the 'easy way' is an alternative to the 'hard way'...I have my unique emotional 'triggers' and 'boundaries' here, you know?"

However, my mother is one who will create the most difficult and stressful scenarios for herself and make mountains out of molehills, just so she can indulge in the martyrdom of 'self-sacrifice' at the total expense of everything else and if there's the 'hardest way', she will find it and be happy...I just cannot live like that because I'm a totally different person to my mother...one who likes 'getting things done' in the shortest and most convenient way and timeframe...and so, we have our arguments about this...but it all hinges on the fact that she cannot expect me to live according to her whims and whiles because she's too disabled to do anything about it herself...so, it all boils down to "I'm sorry, but do you want these items or not? because if you do, it's 'my way or the highway".

[jro5139]

Originally Posted by Raziel

Rhonda Byrne in The Secret takes this a step further, “If you see people who are overweight, do not observe them…If you think or talk about diseases, you will become sick. What you think or surround yourself with – good or bad, is what you will bring upon yourself.”

Honestly, this sounds more like a curse to me than advice.
Lots of stuff I've worried about over the years, never ever happened.
I've seen people state that worrying about something will bring it to pass so you should never worry. These people, obviously, do not have kids. Try having children and tell me you can honestly never worry. It doesn't mean that you are going to bring about what you worried about.

I have also completely and totally believed things at times, sometimes for years, and yet they never came to be.

Do we create our own reality? The me that is writing this and experiencing this life, absolutely does not. If I did, it would be totally different.
Now is it possible that "me" as in my Higher Self/ the version beyond just the "me" that is writing this, has agreed to certain life experiences being that having that ultimate awareness will bring about a higher "me" evolution? Absolutely. So in some sense (higher awareness) I could be creating the events I'm experiencing, but the "me" that is aware of myself in this life, has no idea why (until I look deeper).

I've wondered also about these loa gods or beings that are behind it, with their tricky wording and conditions. Doesn't sound like anything loving, just or fair... if in fact, "God" or "Source"/ Ultimate Creator is a loving, just and fair being at all. I won't sell my soul or even a part of it for anything material and they know it, maybe that's why they do not bother with me? I've come to wonder about this and the supposed "gods" of all ancient texts, as I do not see "God" as an entity at all anymore.

That all having been said, I do believe we can have strong wills that produce events and bring things to us. Sure there are some laws, but our understanding is small compared to what is, and there are probably many other laws that we have yet to discover. However, I know based on my own experience that some things are pre-destined and there is no getting out of things we have pre-agreed to experience. Our soul growth/evolution is the most important thing to the soul.
Having recently gotten on the path of my soul mission, I can tell you that some things I just had to experience before hand (had I not, I would not have had the maturity/understanding/ compassion to complete my soul mission without it changing who I am/need to be). However, I do think that it was easier to manifest random stuff and events before being on this path, which is why I would question if the whole loa thing is actually a trap or not? A lot of it appears to be materially based, or just about "getting everything you want", which is not the purpose of the Earth/school at all at this time.