monogamy only the ego @work?

One concept I am often confronted with when talking with "spiritual people" is the concept of free love as opposed to sexual exclusivness in a relationship. To be honest I personally don't find the idea very appealing. I know I have to stick with what feels right to me which I do. I wont have anyone talking me into letting him sleep with my girlfriend, dont worry ;) But in those discussions I often find myself in a loss of convincing arguments.

Usually what those people are saying amounts to: Insisting on sexual exclusivness in a relationship is the clinging of the ego. Usually this argument goes along with the subtitle: when you are as evolved as I am you will understand and not cling anymore. Or having your girlfriend sleep with another man will help your spiritual development... let me help you^^

I am sure part of insisting on monogamy is due to more primitive biological drives. But can it be reduced to them? Will the buddha not have a favorite companion? Will he watch happily indifferent while his girlfriend gets gang-banged? (sorry for language just trying to get my point across). If yes I am not sure whether this is really an attitude I want to develop.

So I guess what I would like to discuss is whether sexual exclusivness is compatible with higher stages of spiritual development or just a sign of the ego not letting go.

Who are "spiritual people"? Those who call themselves spiritual.
If the person really feels their soul, their body will be separated, and they just won't feel intense need for sex.

[Kaere]

Originally Posted by martingoesspiritual

So I guess what I would like to discuss is whether sexual exclusivness is compatible with higher stages of spiritual development or just a sign of the ego not letting go.

I am not keen on the idea of "free-love", so to speak. I don't think it's any more "spiritual" than monogamy. It's just a different expression. If someone's comfortable with that, I'm not going to tell them not to. Just don't expect me to get involved with it, know what I mean?

IMO sexual exclusiveness is very compatible with spiritual development - you can learn to trust in a different way, let go in a different way, and remove the ego too.

[wstein]

There is value in having a reliable partner, someone who will be there when you need help. This is especially true if you are raising children. Monogamy is an exclusive agreement to provide and be provided for. In an ideal situation it shouldn’t matter if your partner is sharing themselves with others If they are there when you need them. The reality is that they can’t always be there when you need them and they can’t always provide what you need when you need it. The reality is if they are providing for someone else that sometimes happens when you need them. In those cases you don’t get your need met (right then). Going exclusive increases the chance that your partner will be available when you need them. If you had lots of other always around to meet your needs, exclusivity would be far less relevant.

I am guessing that most of what you are calling ‘ego @ work’ is really emotions. There is a lot of insecurity, fear, unworthiness, and attachment around relationships giving rise to hurt, jealousy, possessiveness, clinginess, and other difficult feelings. In that context, monogamy is an unhealthy attempt sooth feelings rather than a way to provide for your needs.

As to sexuality (of any kind) and spirituality that is a matter of personal philosophy and what works best for you. There are spiritual paths that demand celibacy and ones like Tantra that use sexuality as the means to spirituality. There are both physical and spiritual aspects to sexuality but they are all tied to having a body with gender. The spiritual aspects like creation (of a baby) and connectedness can be found in other contexts. As such they can be pursued through sexuality or elsewhere.

As to your gang-bang example, your girlfriend is on her own path. Everyone I have met ‘farther’ along on the spiritual path recognizes that each individual has to follow their own path, and it is not for you to interfere or be judgmental about it. From that view if being gang-banged is part of her path, respect her and allow it. If you got an across the board issue with that, that is part of your path, don’t attempt to impose that on her. If she asks for help then provide it or don’t based on your path. As you seem to be an upstanding citizen, I assume you would honor that request.

Originally Posted by wstein

There is a lot of insecurity, fear, unworthiness, and attachment around relationships giving rise to hurt, jealousy, possessiveness, clinginess, and other difficult feelings.

If your are interested in working on these emotions surrounding relationships, watching your lover with another is the quickest way to get everything out, but it's not easy.

I would say that being monogamous or being in favor of free love are neither spiritual nor un-spiritual. Its a matter of personal preference, or what path you feel called to, as was said. Its only human to form attachments. If you and your partner decide to be monogamous, there is nothing wrong with that so long as you both mutually consent. Same with free love.

Originally Posted by martingoesspiritual

One concept I am often confronted with when talking with "spiritual people" is the concept of free love as opposed to sexual exclusivness in a relationship. To be honest I personally don't find the idea very appealing. I know I have to stick with what feels right to me which I do. I wont have anyone talking me into letting him sleep with my girlfriend, dont worry ;) But in those discussions I often find myself in a loss of convincing arguments.

Usually what those people are saying amounts to: Insisting on sexual exclusivness in a relationship is the clinging of the ego. Usually this argument goes along with the subtitle: when you are as evolved as I am you will understand and not cling anymore. Or having your girlfriend sleep with another man will help your spiritual development... let me help you^^

I am sure part of insisting on monogamy is due to more primitive biological drives. But can it be reduced to them? Will the buddha not have a favorite companion? Will he watch happily indifferent while his girlfriend gets gang-banged? (sorry for language just trying to get my point across). If yes I am not sure whether this is really an attitude I want to develop.

So I guess what I would like to discuss is whether sexual exclusivness is compatible with higher stages of spiritual development or just a sign of the ego not letting go.

The woman doesn't get a choice? Oh right, obviously she's just a peace of meat men can barter. Something wrong with this picture.

I think it depends on the state of mind. Exclusive relationships can lead to jealousy and possessiveness, but they can also develop genuine love and closeness that is not possible otherwise. I think "free love" sounds more like obsessive sexual craving, which is not beneficial. That is just more desire, like eating too many chocolate cakes - better to limit yourself to one!

The Buddha will have close companions (Gautama Buddha had close followers like Ananda and Shariputra). In fact his wife Yasodhara also became a nun. If he had seen her having sex with others he would have just noted that she is following desires which do not lead to ultimate happiness, and have gently guided her to the eightfold way. I do think that is the best way to go, though it is the hard path - limiting our sexual activity to spend more time practising meditation.

[Dragonfly1]

Well for me, if being in or wanting monogamy in a relationship is clinging to ego,... or not being very spiritually advanced,... all I can say is....Im in love with my ego.....and hooey to higher spiritual evolvement....because I wont compromise myself sexually or morally....anyone who tells you that you are clinging to ego or not spiritually evolved because you want a monogamous relationship is far from being spiritually evolved themselves... and are just making excuses to be promiscuous.... in my very humble opinion....Peace

Originally Posted by Tinks

The woman doesn't get a choice? Oh right, obviously she's just a peace of meat men can barter. Something wrong with this picture.

Sorry was not my intention to insult anyone here. The thread is based on the assumption that no one is bartered or forced to do something.

Anyways my mind was spinning around the issue yesterday. And also my girlfriend and I are exclusiv (with mutual agreement) I was thinking what would happen if she would propose to me that she would like to alter the agreement^^

As I said the idea doesn't really appeal to me. To be not misunderstood here: If she decided to go through with it I would of course not try to stop her probably just end the relationship cause I dont think I would handle well going through this. I am pretty sure if she was confronted with the choice of sexual adventures or keeping our relationship she would always go for the latter. But this would of course leave a nasty feeling of blackmail behind. I really dont want to end up in that position.

Well to be honest. Why this creeps on my mind lately is actually that we have planed to visit a couple of alternative communities. From what I am told about some of them I am pretty sure me and my girlfriend will be confronted with this issue. So its not all hypothetical...