the Right to Die

[revolver]

Originally Posted by Tobi

My brother and I chose the right to die for my mother in 2009. In England that was not a euthanasia drug but a cessation of all treatment and methods to prolong life, with the exception of pain relief. That was it. Pain relief only, no fluids, no force feeding, nothing else.
She had all manner of physical illness, and each one was terminal. She also had end-stage dementia to the point where she could no longer swallow. At this point the dementia was affecting essential parts of her brain.

The consultant told us she would be put on what they called the "end of life pathway." And we agreed. He told us she would probably go on only 24 hours more at the most. We thought this was the most humane solution.

One week later she was still alive. It tore us in pieces. She'd had no fluids for one whole week. Yet she was still alive. I cannot describe what this felt like from our paltry point of view. I have no idea what she was going through. She might have been out of her body. I hope that she was.

An I.V. Morphine overdose would have been so much kinder.

They shoot horses, don't they? They put our dear dogs to sleep.....

So sorry to hear that Tobi, I went through the same with my mum, it tears your heart to pieces doesn't it ?.

[revolver]

Originally Posted by Nature Grows

I don't see nothing wrong with helping people pass over, I think the only reason its not aloud is because certain people would lose money.

Yes that maybe so.

[Visitor]

Originally Posted by Nature Grows

I don't see nothing wrong with helping people pass over, I think the only reason its not aloud is because certain people would lose money.

Hello Nature Grows.
Yes, it may be so, especially if one believes time is money.

If you are referring to helping people to pass over at a personal level, there is not that many people, professionals or significant others, who are prepared to spend time with the dying.
Dying is as a personal as it can get. To help someone requires a respect and love for the dying that surpasses any personal fears of death, or dealing with the fearful.
There are also others who are experiencing grief and loss, they need support too.
It also requires a dedication that does not, or ought not to be, governed by the clock.

Believe me, their are not many who can do this as a job.
Those that do, are short staffed. They go from one dying person to the next. They cannot afford to spend too much time with them.
Most of the time is spent in daily physical and medical maintenance of the person. Any communication and emotional support is done during this maintenance period.

Non professionals, such as significant others, in most cases, do have the time to be attentive. Some are very loving, caring, and attentive.
However, many cannot stand being, for too long, with a dying person - and then dying becomes a lonely road for many.

[revolver]

Keep philosophical **** out of it and let them die in peace.

[Visitor]

Originally Posted by revolver

Keep philosophical **** out of it and let them die in peace.

revolver, I am just sharing my personal experience on this topic that apparently is also in the Philosophy and Theory sub-forum.

Sorry you got upset with my post.

[skygazer]

Originally Posted by Visitor

Hello skygazer.
I hear what you are saying, it is sad to see/learn about such things.
But it's not always that way.

Here is an extract I took from: http://www.bostoncatholic.org/Office....aspx?id=12644

"While cognitive function is devastated, the centers of emotion in the brain remain largely unaffected until late in the disease.
This is the "good news" about Alzheimer's disease: the capacity to feel and to relate on the emotional level remains intact and can be used to activate a vibrant, engaged quality of life.
Here is where the potential for mutually fulfilling interaction can be found."

In a nutshell, a good carer, or understanding significant others, can connect with their love.
By doing so, the Alzheimer's patient can still hold onto their dignity.

that is certainly looking at the bright side, Visitor.

[skygazer]

Originally Posted by Tobi

My brother and I chose the right to die for my mother in 2009. In England that was not a euthanasia drug but a cessation of all treatment and methods to prolong life, with the exception of pain relief. That was it. Pain relief only, no fluids, no force feeding, nothing else.
She had all manner of physical illness, and each one was terminal. She also had end-stage dementia to the point where she could no longer swallow. At this point the dementia was affecting essential parts of her brain.

The consultant told us she would be put on what they called the "end of life pathway." And we agreed. He told us she would probably go on only 24 hours more at the most. We thought this was the most humane solution.

One week later she was still alive. It tore us in pieces. She'd had no fluids for one whole week. Yet she was still alive. I cannot describe what this felt like from our paltry point of view. I have no idea what she was going through. She might have been out of her body. I hope that she was.

An I.V. Morphine overdose would have been so much kinder.

They shoot horses, don't they? They put our dear dogs to sleep.....

Heartbreaking, Tobi. I agree that morphine would have been kinder. Doctors don't really know as much as they make it seem. They come to conclusions based on eliminating items, one by one, on a list of criteria that was established from the most recent available 'facts'. This is fundamentally faulty logic.

[skygazer]

Originally Posted by Nature Grows

I don't see nothing wrong with helping people pass over, I think the only reason its not aloud is because certain people would lose money.

Ah, you may have something there, Nature Grows.
Such debate and ethical dilemma over allowing someone to die with the dignity they feel should be theirs may also ultimately be because we live in societies where it is presumed we all follow the 'laws of god'.

[skygazer]

Originally Posted by revolver

Yes I am completely for the right to die, anything else is cruelty.

yes, it is cruel to have to suffer until we take our last breath.

[Visitor]

Originally Posted by Tobi

My brother and I chose the right to die for my mother in 2009. In England that was not a euthanasia drug but a cessation of all treatment and methods to prolong life, with the exception of pain relief. That was it. Pain relief only, no fluids, no force feeding, nothing else.
She had all manner of physical illness, and each one was terminal. She also had end-stage dementia to the point where she could no longer swallow. At this point the dementia was affecting essential parts of her brain.

The consultant told us she would be put on what they called the "end of life pathway." And we agreed. He told us she would probably go on only 24 hours more at the most. We thought this was the most humane solution.

One week later she was still alive. It tore us in pieces. She'd had no fluids for one whole week. Yet she was still alive. I cannot describe what this felt like from our paltry point of view. I have no idea what she was going through. She might have been out of her body. I hope that she was.

An I.V. Morphine overdose would have been so much kinder.

They shoot horses, don't they? They put our dear dogs to sleep.....

Sorry to read about this Tobi. It is very sad indeed.

When I worked as a relief counsellor in palliative care (2000-2005), the end of life plan was not yet conceived.
I just did an online research on the late 2009 program.
Though I understand the basic logic of the plan, it sure did lack availability of professional medical staff, and individual continuous assessment. In that regard nothing had improved since my time in the field.
It saddens me that the poor attitude of health care and medical staff have for those that are dying is still not properly addressed.
The attitude is similar to how some staff treat addicts and attempted suicide victims. Their attitude drops as soon as their hope of being able to make a difference drops.
It is sad that even after education about this very thing, they still opt for what is best for them instead of the patient.

Sorry for your grief Tobi.