GOSPEL OF THOMAS (new translation)

First things first. Apparently you simply wish to deconstruct. I applaud your right to find fault but without pointing out the error in logic or facts it is meaningless. Now is an ideal time to present your case and/or interpretation. The trouble with these forums...especially Christianity...is that seldom is any topic developed...they are simply dismissed with one sentence replies that have no substance.

Originally Posted by inavalan

Why should one assume that being decent suggests having something to hide?
Because we're living in a trolling society, where the obnoxious is proud of its visibility.

It was about the symbolism of appearing before God....sorry if you thought it meant that on this earth that one’s nudity should be flaunted.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

The Gospel of Thomas was never canonized.

GOSPEL OF THOMAS

  VERSE 37

(37) His disciples said,

"When will you appear to us?

   When will we see you?"



Jesus said,

     "When you strip naked without being ashamed
and you take your clothes and put them under your feet
           like little children and trample on them,
        then you will see the son of the Living One,
                 and you will not be afraid."

Nicely said Molearner.

Originally Posted by Molearner

BigJohn,

Thank you for sharing this. The words of Jesus are a call for the return to the Garden of Eden. To be naked before God is to present oneself without ego. 'Clothing' can be seen as the ego which is an attempt to hide ourselves from God. We remember that one must be like a child to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. To trample on the clothes is to mingle them with the dust of the earth....and from dust to dust implies death. In essence we must attempt to put the ego to death. It is at this point that we reunite with God and that we can come into His presence. When we are in the presence of His love there is no fear.

I would agree that clothes are a reference to ego attachments.

Being like children is referring to being in the present moment.

Children are focused and living in the moment when they play. No worries about the appearance, no worries about the past, and no worries about (those clean clothes in) the future. Just endless curiosity and play.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

Why do you need to drop the ego to enter the Kingdom of Heaven anyway

Why do you need to drop the ego to become realized in Buddhism, Taoism or Hinduism? We could add Sufism, Kabbalism, Mystical and Gnostic Christianity to the list.

22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom." They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?" Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

To realize true oneness/non-duality you have to move beyond the ego self. The "kingdom" of God is primordial and beyond consciousness/mind.

[quote=jonesboy
I would agree that clothes are a reference to ego attachments.

Being like children is referring to being in the present moment.

Children are focused and living in the moment when they play. No worries about the appearance, no worries about the past, and no worries about (those clean clothes in) the future. Just endless curiosity and play.[/QUOTE]

Jonesboy,

Thanks for adding to the discussion. I liked your observation of children living in the present moment. On this particular thread I have appreciated and looked forward to your commentaries.....thanks.

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Why do you need to drop the ego to become realized in Buddhism, Taoism or Hinduism? We could add Sufism, Kabbalism, Mystical and Gnostic Christianity to the list.

22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom." They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?" Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

To realize true oneness/non-duality you have to move beyond the ego self. The "kingdom" of God is primordial and beyond consciousness/mind.

Buddha never taught about ' Dropping the Ego ' what he taught was through Wisdom a healthy flexible ego is established...



Verse 290 of theDhammapada:

If, by forsaking a limited ease,
he would see an abundance of ease,
the enlightened person
would forsake the limited ease
for the sake of the abundant.

This is a definition of how a healthy flexible ego functions.


Searching all directions
with one’s awareness,
one finds no one dearer
than oneself.
In the same way, others
are fiercely dear to themselves.
So one should not hurt others
if one loves oneself.

All Buddha's Teachings are based on what is Unskilfull and Skilfull and a healthy flexible ego or sense of self is beneficial...


This may help

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/...esnotself.html


Actually, the Buddha's teachings contain all the elements of healthy ego functioning. Even the not-self teaching is treated by the Buddha as a type of healthy ego functioning.


' We can also see that these teachings on developing a healthy ego include some of the basic virtues of the Buddha — discernment, compassion, and purity: the discernment in anticipation, sublimation, and humor; the compassion in altruism; and the purity in suppression. In this way, these three qualities of the Buddha come from healthy ego functioning in the intelligent pursuit of happiness. Unlike some religious teachers, the Buddha doesn't encourage you to feel ashamed of your desire for happiness or to deny it. Instead, he shows you how to train that desire so that it leads to true happiness and develops noble qualities of heart and mind along the way. He shows you how your ego can become wise, compassionate, and pure.'



No mention of ' Dropping the Ego '.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by sky123

Buddha never taught about ' Dropping the Ego ' what he taught was through Wisdom a healthy flexible ego is established...



Verse 290 of theDhammapada:

If, by forsaking a limited ease,
he would see an abundance of ease,
the enlightened person
would forsake the limited ease
for the sake of the abundant.

This is a definition of how a healthy flexible ego functions.


Searching all directions
with one’s awareness,
one finds no one dearer
than oneself.
In the same way, others
are fiercely dear to themselves.
So one should not hurt others
if one loves oneself.

All Buddha's Teachings are based on what is Unskilfull and Skilfull and a healthy flexible ego or sense of self is beneficial...


This may help

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/...esnotself.html


Actually, the Buddha's teachings contain all the elements of healthy ego functioning. Even the not-self teaching is treated by the Buddha as a type of healthy ego functioning.


' We can also see that these teachings on developing a healthy ego include some of the basic virtues of the Buddha — discernment, compassion, and purity: the discernment in anticipation, sublimation, and humor; the compassion in altruism; and the purity in suppression. In this way, these three qualities of the Buddha come from healthy ego functioning in the intelligent pursuit of happiness. Unlike some religious teachers, the Buddha doesn't encourage you to feel ashamed of your desire for happiness or to deny it. Instead, he shows you how to train that desire so that it leads to true happiness and develops noble qualities of heart and mind along the way. He shows you how your ego can become wise, compassionate, and pure.'



No mention of ' Dropping the Ego '.

While in Tuṣita Heaven, how 'big' was Gautama Buddha's ego?

How 'big' is Maitreya's ego?

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by sky123

Buddha never taught about ' Dropping the Ego ' what he taught was through Wisdom a healthy flexible ego is established...



Verse 290 of theDhammapada:

If, by forsaking a limited ease,
he would see an abundance of ease,
the enlightened person
would forsake the limited ease
for the sake of the abundant.

This is a definition of how a healthy flexible ego functions.


Searching all directions
with one’s awareness,
one finds no one dearer
than oneself.
In the same way, others
are fiercely dear to themselves.
So one should not hurt others
if one loves oneself.

There are numerous translations of verse 290. For example:

"If by giving up a lesser happiness, one may behold a greater one, let the wise man give up the lesser happiness in consideration of the greater happiness."

Another translation is:

"If at the cost of a little joy one sees great joy, he who is wise will look to the greater and leave the less."

And then compare with this translation:

"If by leaving a small pleasure one sees a great pleasure, let a wise man leave the small pleasure, and look to the great."

[sky]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

There are numerous translations of verse 290. For example:

"If by giving up a lesser happiness, one may behold a greater one, let the wise man give up the lesser happiness in consideration of the greater happiness."

Another translation is:

"If at the cost of a little joy one sees great joy, he who is wise will look to the greater and leave the less."

And then compare with this translation:

"If by leaving a small pleasure one sees a great pleasure, let a wise man leave the small pleasure, and look to the great."

Exactly the concept is the same...

[sky]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

While in Tuṣita Heaven, how 'big' was Gautama Buddha's ego?

How 'big' is Maitreya's ego?

Your Family can easily answer these for you as I am not going around in circles.