Doing and Happening

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Iamit

Nondual points are made for the purpose of offering a nondual solution to ending the spiritual search. If there are no separate persons then there is noone to conduct the spiritual search or to become enlightened or realize, so what is thought to be the purpose of the search has no point or basis.

I agree ..

This has always been my point made when hardcore non dualists arrogantly tell me to search for the Truth in which they have realised .

I will say well there is no-one here to search or to realise what you declare and proclaim lol .

If what is here is likened to a shadow of Self or a reflection of Self and everything is illusory then all there is, is a shadow telling a shadow what is true and what is not .

A shadow in itself has no knowings of what is true or false, what is real or unreal, so we need to establish a foundation to begin with and build from there ..

What I constantly find is that none of this non duality stuff where there is no doer proclaimed makes any sense at all .

When questioned nothing gets revealed other than dogmatic responses based upon what has been written ..

Dogmatic responses that are made by a shadow or an illusory self .

Makes no sense to me at all .

Books don't get written by themselves, there needs a writer of them .


x daz x

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by God-Like

I agree ..

This has always been my point made when hardcore non dualists arrogantly tell me to search for the Truth in which they have realised .

I will say well there is no-one here to search or to realise what you declare and proclaim lol .

If what is here is likened to a shadow of Self or a reflection of Self and everything is illusory then all there is, is a shadow telling a shadow what is true and what is not .

A shadow in itself has no knowings of what is true or false, what is real or unreal, so we need to establish a foundation to begin with and build from there ..

What I constantly find is that none of this non duality stuff where there is no doer proclaimed makes any sense at all .

When questioned nothing gets revealed other than dogmatic responses based upon what has been written ..

Dogmatic responses that are made by a shadow or an illusory self .

Makes no sense to me at all .
illusion of difference
Books don't get written by themselves, there needs a writer of them .
(Oneness)

x daz x

The nondual story does make sense if the manifestion is resonated with as a very convincing, solid looking, illusion of difference where there is no difference whatsoever. A bit like a hologram that operates on all the senses, not just vision. Just like the plot of a movie can make sense, yet it is still a movie, and in the case of the nondual movie, all the parts are played by One actor (Oneness). Under this scenario it does not need a separate person to write a book, (Hence no Doer) only Oneness looking like a separate person.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Iamit

The nondual story does make sense if the manifestion is resonated with as a very convincing, solid looking, illusion of difference where there is no difference whatsoever. A bit like a hologram that operates on all the senses, not just vision. Just like the plot of a movie can make sense, yet it is still a movie, and in the case of the nondual movie, all the parts are played by One actor (Oneness). Under this scenario it does not need a separate person to write a book, (Hence no Doer) only Oneness looking like a separate person.

To whom does anything resonate with if there is no-one here to resonate ..

You see, it matters not how anyone puts anything across it makes no sense .

Swap the doer with the experiencer, swap the experiencer with the resonator it changes nothing .

There is either someone thing here present that is self conscious and aware or there isn't .

If there is, it implies there is a conscious doer, experiencer, if there isn't it is a waste of time pretending otherwise .

What constitutes a conscious aware I AMness if not an individualised Self .

People can deny it all day long but the very denial reflects their individual status .

You spoke of pointers yesterday, well pointers are only useful for someone that is present that can see a point in them .

A drone type illusionary, dreamlike hologram has no use for them .


x daz x

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by God-Like

To whom does anything resonate with if there is no-one here to resonate ..

You see, it matters not how anyone puts anything across it makes no sense .

Swap the doer with the experiencer, swap the experiencer with the resonator it changes nothing .

There is either someone thing here present that is self conscious and aware or there isn't .

If there is, it implies there is a conscious doer, experiencer, if there isn't it is a waste of time pretending otherwise .

What constitutes a conscious aware I AMness if not an individualised Self .

People can deny it all day long but the very denial reflects their individual status .

You spoke of pointers yesterday, well pointers are only useful for someone that is present that can see a point in them .

A drone type illusionary, dreamlike hologram has no use for them .


x daz x

You forget the idea of an illusion and try to make sense of it as though there was no such thing as an illusion (The appearance of separation where there is no separation at all). The very essense of the nondual story is the appearance of two where there is only one. The resonance is with an illusion of a person. The very resonance itself is an illusion. You are trying to make sense of an illusion as though there was something other than an illusion, perhaps called truth or reality. The illusion is the only reality but that is only in a fictional story called nonduality.

There is nothng else but the manifestation of an illusion in the nonduality story, including the nonduality story itself (including this statement:). Its not a comfortable position for someone seeking more than an illusion but its all thats available in the nonduality story. This is probably why Neo Advaita was concealed, although known, because of this uncomfortable aspect, and why it remains unpopular today, but in my view is a valuable attempt to acknowledge a very uncomfortable/difficult position for seekers of truth/reality, pointing to the need to trancend those ideas if the feeling of disconnection is to end.

It is surprising that a resonance with this position can unite the illusory person with the illusory concept and end the illusory feeling of disconnection between the two, once seeking truth/reality has been trancended. Kierkegaard's parable of the Highwayman is a help in that undertaking.

Niz said "Why go beyond the dream, you will only find more dream":)

Originally Posted by God-Like

.....

I will say well there is no-one here to search or to realise what you declare and proclaim lol .

Hehe! I like to say, "Who are you talking to? I don't exist! Remember?"

There is of course a certain truth to this idea, but when taken far enough, it doesn't make any cognitive sense, any any attempt to assert it ends up contradicting itself... which is when the fun begins. LOL

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Hehe! I like to say, "Who are you talking to? I don't exist! Remember?"

There is of course a certain truth to this idea, but when taken far enough, it doesn't make any cognitive sense, any any attempt to assert it ends up contradicting itself... which is when the fun begins. LOL

"Stop making sense" Talking Heads.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Hehe! I like to say, "Who are you talking to? I don't exist! Remember?"

There is of course a certain truth to this idea, but when taken far enough, it doesn't make any cognitive sense, any any attempt to assert it ends up contradicting itself... which is when the fun begins. LOL

***

Needed that laugh!

***

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Hehe! I like to say, "Who are you talking to? I don't exist! Remember?"

There is of course a certain truth to this idea, but when taken far enough, it doesn't make any cognitive sense, any any attempt to assert it ends up contradicting itself... which is when the fun begins. LOL

"Who's talking?", "Who's listening?", "Who's wondering?", "Where will the next thought come from?"

Hello!

Just another church.

[Iamit]

It really is not that difficult to see the nondual point that all is Oneness manifest. So all conversation is Oneness talking to itself, and resonating with itself, whilst looking like separate persons. Why Oneness manifests and masquerades as such seems to be because it can :)

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Iamit

You forget the idea of an illusion and try to make sense of it as though there was no such thing as an illusion (The appearance of separation where there is no separation at all). The very essense of the nondual story is the appearance of two where there is only one. The resonance is with an illusion of a person. The very resonance itself is an illusion. You are trying to make sense of an illusion as though there was something other than an illusion, perhaps called truth or reality. The illusion is the only reality but that is only in a fictional story called nonduality.

There is nothng else but the manifestation of an illusion in the nonduality story, including the nonduality story itself (including this statement:). Its not a comfortable position for someone seeking more than an illusion but its all thats available in the nonduality story. This is probably why Neo Advaita was concealed, although known, because of this uncomfortable aspect, and why it remains unpopular today, but in my view is a valuable attempt to acknowledge a very uncomfortable/difficult position for seekers of truth/reality, pointing to the need to trancend those ideas if the feeling of disconnection is to end.

It is surprising that a resonance with this position can unite the illusory person with the illusory concept and end the illusory feeling of disconnection between the two, once seeking truth/reality has been trancended. Kierkegaard's parable of the Highwayman is a help in that undertaking.

Niz said "Why go beyond the dream, you will only find more dream":)

From what I gather here is that non duality itself is a fictional story that doesn't relate to anyone because there is no one here .

Everything is illusory even the premise of non duality .

The premise of oneness is just a story and holds no weight .

You see when we delve into premises like these there has to be a comparative opposite that exists in order for the premise to exist .

When we have a fictional story that is the only thing present one can only understand what is fictional based upon what in non fiction .

What niz refers to is simply more dreams beyond the dreams and there is no comparison for what isn't a dream .

It doesn't work . You can't just have an illusory fictional story as a reality .

Non dualists just go round and round in stories creating a never ending loop of denying their own self existence .

When you actually question the foundation it doesn't work and it doesn't make any real sense .

It's no good for example saying that the non dual illusory dream makes sense when the foundation doesn't add up .

It really is no good for non existent peeps creating a story about non duality and not living by it either lol .


x daz x