What are all the verses saying the Father and Jesus are the same being?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Yes, an imp statement! I agree. (You left out verse 59, btw, where they picked up stones and he hid.)
KJV says, 58: Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

I'm personally not seeing where it indicates 'His title was I am', as you interpret it, nor that he was God...I mean, in
that particular statement.
And does being before Abraham mean you're God?
It's not as clear as other things that Jesus has said - to me, anyway.

I have a question. Don't get mad at me.. ....is there anyplace in the Bible where it says Paul saw
Jesus in person ('bodily') other than when Jesus appeared to him on the road?

There doesn't seem to be any other references referring to Paul seeing Jesus except the one on the road, but there are others who said they did and Mary Magdalene was the first.



Who was before Abraham

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by sky123

There doesn't seem to be any other references referring to Paul seeing Jesus except the one on the road, ....

Who was before Abraham

Well, I believe we all were!
I mean - otherwise, it would be saying, NO soul existed before Abraham ..
if ya wanna believe that ---um, ok. I sure don't. Jesus was conscious of it, for sure.

I didn't think Paul knew him 'in the body', so thanks... that makes his sentence odd...
I mean, to me.
I'm not saying it was true or not; that Paul was wrong or right...but if you did not know Jesus 'in the body' ---
it's an odd statement, to me.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Well, I believe we all were!
I mean - otherwise, it would be saying, NO soul existed before Abraham ..
if ya wanna believe that ---um, ok. I sure don't. Jesus was conscious of it, for sure.

I didn't think Paul knew him 'in the body', so thanks... that makes his sentence odd...
I mean, to me.
I'm not saying it was true or not; that Paul was wrong or right...but if you did not know Jesus 'in the body' ---
it's an odd statement, to me.

' Well, I believe we all were '

As the twinkle in Our Fathers eye

[ThatMan]

If we are all in Christ and we are, and if He existed before creation, and He existed, then we were also there with Him, in complete unity, before all things were created. And going further, if He is in the Father, and He is, and if the Father is in Him, and He is, then we are also in the Father and the Father is in us. But as long as we keep running and running, as long as we keep being the Prodigal Son, we will not be able to comprehend this primordial truth.

I've been asking myself why the Creator is not revealing Himself to us in a personal way, what Father stays away from His child? Why is He not acting when a child is brutally raped and murdered? Then I understood, it's not that He is hidden, it's that we are running away from Him, it's like Christ said, when you will live through His teachings, then He will reveal Himself to you because then and only then you will be able to comprehend the true nature of things. Of course, as we have seen, He revealed Himself to Paul and Paul was really against His people but maybe this was the only way for Paul reach the Creator, just in the same way Thomas needed to actually touch His wounds. I think that every human being knows and feels deep inside what is the only way for he or she to meet the Creator, for me, it's simple, when I will love/act/think/forgive like Christ, then I will surely see Him in all His glory.

:)

Originally Posted by sky123

I love,
John 8:58-59: "‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘ before Abraham was born, I am '
It's so deep.

sky123,

With multiple interpretations it is deep indeed. First in the thread about the I AM we discussed various meanings for the I AM up to and including the possibility that the I AM could be substitutionary for God and/or the Holy Spirit.

Secondly it is deep because of the whole idea Father Abraham......being viewed as the father of all the prophets, etc. In Matthew's gospel the lineage of Jesus that he presents starts with Abraham even though the lineage that Luke gives is traced to Adam. Adam, however, was discredited for precipitating the Fall......so Israel was more inclined to accept Abraham as the father of all. Jesus was speaking to those with this understanding......so he is clearly stating that He was before his father, Abraham.

It is also important to remember that God tested Abraham by asking him to sacrifice his first born son Isaac. Isaac understood that Abraham was taking him to witness a sacrifice to God. Isaac asked his father "where is the lamb for sacrifice" and Abraham replied...."God will provide the lamb". Abraham then placed Isaac on the wood and God intervened stopping Abraham. Abraham had passed the test. A ram instead of a lamb was found and was sacrificed. One of the appellations of Jesus, of course, is the Lamb of God. Jesus was the sacrifice of God's only Son. The way it works out is that the lineage of Jesus is evident in the church. Think of the other thread where we were establishing that the church is the body of Christ. Symbolically there is a lot wrapped up in those few words you provided.....:)

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Molearner

sky123,

With multiple interpretations it is deep indeed. First in the thread about the I AM we discussed various meanings for the I AM up to and including the possibility that the I AM could be substitutionary for God and/or the Holy Spirit.

Secondly it is deep because of the whole idea Father Abraham......being viewed as the father of all the prophets, etc. In Matthew's gospel the lineage of Jesus that he presents starts with Abraham even though the lineage that Luke gives is traced to Adam. Adam, however, was discredited for precipitating the Fall......so Israel was more inclined to accept Abraham as the father of all. Jesus was speaking to those with this understanding......so he is clearly stating that He was before his father, Abraham.

It is also important to remember that God tested Abraham by asking him to sacrifice his first born son Isaac. Isaac understood that Abraham was taking him to witness a sacrifice to God. Isaac asked his father "where is the lamb for sacrifice" and Abraham replied...."God will provide the lamb". Abraham then placed Isaac on the wood and God intervened stopping Abraham. Abraham had passed the test. A ram instead of a lamb was found and was sacrificed. One of the appellations of Jesus, of course, is the Lamb of God. Jesus was the sacrifice of God's only Son. The way it works out is that the lineage of Jesus is evident in the church. Think of the other thread where we were establishing that the church is the body of Christ. Symbolically there is a lot wrapped up in those few words you provided.....:)

Abram was not a Jew: he was Hebrew.
Jesus, being before Abraham: that theme would be so well developed that it really was Jesus who was the first born of creation and it would be Jesus, who would create the rest of creation.

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Abram was not a Jew: he was Hebrew.
Jesus, being before Abraham: that theme would be so well developed that it really was Jesus who was the first born of creation and it would be Jesus, who would create the rest of creation.

bigJohn,

one can only guess where you get your info. In Jewish tradition Abraham is recognized as the first Jew.

[zastrakoza]

@ BigJohn: I really like your comment! :)

[zastrakoza]

Before Jews were, Abraham was :P

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Molearner

bigJohn,

one can only guess where you get your info. In Jewish tradition Abraham is recognized as the first Jew.

One of the places I concluded Abram was a Hebrew is found in Genesis 14:13. That scripture reads "And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram."