The false self

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Actually they are not judgments at all, it is the self or oneness knowing the self's true nature and the self's false nature.

True and false are judgement and relative to one's own agenda. JASG has already described so-called 'true' self - the self of unchanging reality - so I won't bother. The question is, what is your definition of the 'self' and what makes its nature true or false? By the way, I did notice the change from you talking about true and false self to talking about the true or false nature of the self.

Strictly speaking, neither Spiritually or psychologically 'you' don't make the call anyway as to what is 'true' or 'false'.

The 'true' and 'false' 'nature' of the self IS separation, and an attempt at re-identification. This is what we're really talking about here - not Spirituality but which one the ego would rather identify as.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

You were also making the distinction between 'false' self and 'true' self, so that is the creation of two 'selfs'. Where does that stand in relation to the 'whole'? Y'see Mike, the whole is a completely different discussion altogether and if people are talking about a 'true' or 'false' 'self' then 'whole' isn't happening.

I made the distinction between our true nature and our false nature, not between the false self and the true self, like I said there is only one self.

What are the paradoxes that the ego creates?

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

True and false are judgement and relative to one's own agenda

Yes, one's own agenda, meaning one's intentions or motivations. Is one's intentions or motivations based on truth, our true nature, which is oneness/wholeness, or is one's intentions or motivation not based on truth, our true nature, which is oneness/wholeness?

I already told you what the self is, the self is both the feeling of I AM and the thinking of I AM. This is the only self that there is. I also already told you about our false nature and our true nature. Our false nature is our mental habbit, conditioning or programming of comparing, separating, judging, analyzing, evaluating etc etc, instead of us paying attention to or being conscious, without any effort or force of all the thoughts we have and of the universe, without comparing, separating, judging, analyzing, evaluating etc etc the universe and everything in the universe.

[mary isaak]

Thank you so much Greenslade!

Originally Posted by Greenslade

"Religion is for those that are afraid of going to hell, Spirituality is for those that have been there."

Wooow very powerful quote!

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Keeping it as simple as possible. Duality is 'this', non-Duality is 'that' - non-Duality different from Duality.

I think I kind of get it. Seeing duality vs non-duality is a dualistic view. To reach non duality we need to transcend this view. Does it mean that duality is a mental/ego creation?

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by mary isaak

I think I kind of get it. Seeing duality vs non-duality is a dualistic view. To reach non duality we need to transcend this view. Does it mean that duality is a mental/ego creation?

Yes, seeing anything that is in opposition of oneness/wholeness is a dualistic view, an example is pitting non-duality against duality, which many spiritual people do. Non-duality and duality are one because non-duality is duality from a oneness/wholeness perspective. The opposites of Up/down, left/right, good/bad, positive/negative, good looking/ugly etc etc are all oneness/wholeness.

On the deepest level, a person's false nature that judges, analyzes, evaluates, separates, compares and etc, the universe and anything in the universe is doing the same thing to him/her self because the self is oneness/wholeness, and oneness/wholeness is everything.

[mary isaak]

Thank you very much MikeS80 for nice explanation

Originally Posted by MikeS80

The opposites of Up/down, left/right, good/bad, positive/negative, good looking/ugly etc etc are all oneness/wholeness.

I can intellectually reason to get to this idea but I do not see how can I relate to it from my own experience; as I still see opposites in everything.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by mary isaak

I can intellectually reason to get to this idea but I do not see how can I relate to it from my own experience; as I still see opposites in everything.

The nature of form is duality. As long as we identify with form then all that we know are opposites. The spiritual search is the search for formlessness, that which underlies and pervades all form. When we discover our own formless nature, then we see the oneness in all opposites.

Peace

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by mary isaak

Thank you very much MikeS80 for nice explanation :smile

I can intellectually reason to get to this idea but I do not see how can I relate to it from my own experience; as I still see opposites in everything.

You are welcome. To relate with oneness/wholeness, stay with the truth that everything you see, hear, smell, taste and feel is oneness/wholeness, which means not separate from the universe, including yourself. Your true nature is not separate from the universe. I do not mean that figuratively, I mean that actually.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by iamthat

The nature of form is duality. As long as we identify with form then all that we know are opposites

That is a spiritual myth and prevents and leads one's self astray from one's self seeing and knowing form/the physical universe for the oneness/wholeness that it really is. The form and the formless is the self, the self that is aligned/balanced with it's true nature.

Edit: Duality and non-duality are one and the same, just like form and the formless are one and the same.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Edit: Duality and non-duality are one and the same, just like form and the formless are one and the same.

Perhaps your understanding of form and formlessness is different from mine. There is no form without formlessness. There is formlessness without form.

Peace