Lilith left Eden

She left Eden.

Could you believe it?
Both Adam and Eve were banished from Eden.

Lilith just left.


Why?

Not only did she leave,
she left using God's lent powers,
and upon leaving, seeing the world outside paradise,
even when three angels came for her,
even then she refused to return.
She refused so much, she even accepted having her children killed,
and retaliated by equally killing Adam's children.

She refused paradise that badly.
Just because she didn't want to be Adam's subordinate.



I don't understand.

I don't understand how anyone could turn from paradise
just to save her pride and just to be herself.


What does it take for her to return?
Did she ever want to return?

Is she really happy?
If she's not what's the cost for her to be happy?
Who in the right mind does not want happiness?

Can't she just swallow her pride, just this once?
Just this once?

Please?

[God-Like]

Saw about 5 mins of this the other day ..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ErjpGDvfVQ



x daz x

Originally Posted by God-Like

Saw about 5 mins of this the other day ..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ErjpGDvfVQ



x daz x

LOL. I listened to 10 mins and.... it sounded like someone who's read a few posts here, read a bit of the Qabalistic legend... It'll suit someone who wants to start on the Lilith current but not as in the original legend, rather the way the current is being usurped by women who feel the need to be more feisty and virago-like!

But we have our beliefs. I think she's a well-meaning fake. Others may choose to believe her. Why fake to me? Because 1) she doesn't have the sensual drive of Lilith as She's been "felt" across the ages. Lilith resides on the dark side of the Tree of Life - or we're talking about a different Lilith. And 2) we can all get into deep trance and voice all sorts of things, descriptions of what we see/feel/hear in the remotest parts of our inner worlds if the trance is deep enough; we can pre-program at least some of what we're trying to find - but that doesn't mean the outpourings are valid for any- or everyone else.

There are far more fake psychics and channellers than genuine ones so I attend carefully. Time I learned to do this stuff. There's money to be made.

Just my views. I rest my case.

[Inika]

she probably represents the rebellious, perverse, stubborn, opposing part within the psyche (we all have?)that would have to be feminine since its negative and cold and internal.

that part that would rather see death than something giving them no will.

[Khalli]

Originally Posted by Sonolil

....
She refused paradise that badly.
Just because she didn't want to be Adam's subordinate.

Seems reasonable, even paradise isn't paradise without freedom.

And why do men think women should be subordinate to them?
They are to be our partners, equals in life.

[FallingLeaves]

where is lilith's life written about?

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

where is lilith's life written about?

https://www.thoughtco.com/legend-of-...rigins-2076660

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by Khalli

Seems reasonable, even paradise isn't paradise without freedom.

And why do men think women should be subordinate to them?
They are to be our partners, equals in life.

I have to say...this topic is very timely to me.
Lillith and Samael as archetypal aspects of our existence need to be revisited from time to time on our spiritual journeys...

Here are a few key excerpts I thought were informative, usually at the top or bottom of these historically fascinating articles...

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the-bible/people-in-the-bible/lilith/

Lilith’s relationship with Adam is a different matter. Their conflict is one of patriarchal authority versus matriarchal desire for emancipation, and the warring couple cannot reconcile. They represent the archetypal battle of the sexes. Neither attempts to solve their dispute or to reach some kind of compromise where they take turns being on top (literally and figuratively). Man cannot cope with woman’s desire for freedom, and woman will settle for nothing less. In the end, they both lose.

https://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/r/rape_of_eve_the.html

Many women possess the Lilith aspect of the feminine personality, Samael in men. This is an personality aspect which represents the witch's knife giving her the determination and strength to depart or cut away from taking the sheltered and traditional path of womanhood, a path usually male and power driven. The nontraditional path leads its feminine traveler on a very different road than the one traveled by the average woman, often at first to isolation. In the feeling of complete aloneness, and sometimes shame, the person asks, "What have I done?" But such isolation and shame when accepted as challenges can issue forth fortitude. After healing oneself from wounds inflicted by ordinary society the woman decides whether she is going to repeatedly accept those wounds or fight back. If her Lilith aspect fully develops, she fights back by deciding the best ways of meeting numerous situations. She uses her knife to destroy injurious situations, and defend herself. Performing her tasks may by slow and arduous but she seeks self-equality and justice. She seeks selfhood as Lilith did when storming heaven's gate.

I think Lillith represents the human desire for acceptance in parity, not in subservience, oppression or slavery. Women's desire for parity is necessary for true love, authentic love, between partners. For real connection and not conditional or qualified or exchange-based "connection".

This radical idea -- that authentic love should be the foundation of all human relationship -- because authentic love is the ground of our being -- was worth killing, enslaving, castigating, and demonising women who were evolved enough spiritually to seek it out.

Lillith as independent woman with her own mind and voice was cast by the crusty old farts of the day as a mystically powerful, enticing, yet demanding [she-dog] with all manner of horrid traits...because she wanted to share in love as true partners and she didn't want to be dominated. Why was this archetype even necessary? Because...misogyny and prejudices, primal fears, lust for power and domination, etc.

The very truth of what is, was tarred and feathered. But now, folks are beginning to see that this parity and this authentic love is true and good...no coercion or power over required, as domination will never allow for the authentic love that yields a true desire for the beloved (in a woman for a man she loves).

Samael (known as Azrael in Arabic writings), also known as the Angel of Death, has been cast in Christianity as the ultimate bad guy but the reality is much more complex. Like Lillith. There is a recognition even historically that Samael held spaces for darkness and thus also for light up through physical death, which in turn critically allows humanity to grow and exercise free will in a material existence. But also that he is serving the greater good in so doing. Likewise, mortality and death has been seen as both good and bad...as a somehow unfortunate part of material existence (one that came with the good or intended outcome of leaving the garden as humanity left to embark on our spiritual journey with self-awareness), or even as an evil curse, by traditional religion -- but also as something that gave weight and meaning to the duration of our existence here. To many on their paths now, however, we see death is not something to be feared but rather to be embraced on our journey.

We need the space to explore and reclaim and transmute the energies that we are...and to re-direct the darkest and most destructive energies or aspects to serve a greater purpose. In a great many cases, there is no "gun to your head"...so where is the ownership? What's that?...the devil made you do it? LOL....please. That's the whole point, to take the tough decisions when faced with the opportunity to use and abuse, and to take the ownership for those choices, and to grow up.

From Wiki:

Samael (Hebrew: סַמָּאֵל‬, "Venom of God"[1] or "Poison of God", or "Blindness of God" Samael or Samil)[2][3][4] is an important archangel in Talmudic and post-Talmudic lore, a figure who is an accuser, seducer, and destroyer, and has been regarded as both good and evil. Rabbinical writings describe Samael as the guardian angel of Esau (and the Roman empire)[5] and a patron of Edom.

He is considered in Talmudic texts to be a member of the heavenly host (with often grim and destructive duties). One of Samael's greatest roles in Jewish lore is that of the main archangel of death. He remains one of God's servants even though he condones the sins of man. As an angel, Samael resides in the seventh heaven, although he is declared to be the chief angel of the fifth heaven, the reason for this being the presence of the throne of glory in the seventh heaven.[6]

What I'm saying is that...from my perspective, the traditional interpretations are fear-based and are not grounded in an awareness of authentic love between partners. The traditional interpretations assume men require the subjugation, degradation, and even violent treatment (coercive sex without consent as normal and mandatory) of women, just like modern pornography. Because of that, a woman's natural power and her primordial (dark) energy (the Yin) must be evil. As represented by Lillith. And Samael, who is tasked with holding the antimatter and thus the space necessary for material existence and free will, must be evil. Since men's free will allows men to use and abuse others and generally do a lot of bad stuff, as well as the good stuff.

IMO this is basically scapegoating Source and/or the angels (specific ones) for our individual weaknesses and misaligned choices and behaviours, which is on so many levels just ridiculous. Unless there is a literal gun to your head (or equivalent), then it's about time we began to take ownership, and not by saying OK as of right now, bad is good and what we've been doing is now OK so carry on. But rather by saying, hey it's not OK and it's never been OK...it's time to man up and face the truth square in the eye. It's time we took the hard choices and quit perpetrating x, y, and z rubbish on those in our lives, full stop. And it's time to see why we used to need these rather vile archetypes...to hold our fear and our hatred for women and for our own weaknesses. That's why revisiting these archetypes and how we view them is so meaningful, IMO.

Peace & blessings
7L

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

What I'm saying is that...from my perspective, the traditional interpretations are fear-based and are not grounded in an awareness of authentic love between partners. The traditional interpretations assume men require the subjugation, degradation, and even violent treatment (coercive sex without consent as normal and mandatory) of women, just like modern pornography. Because of that, a woman's natural power and her primordial (dark) energy (the Yin) must be evil. As represented by Lillith. And Samael, who is tasked with holding the antimatter and thus the space necessary for material existence and free will, must be evil. Since men's free will allows men to use and abuse others and generally do a lot of bad stuff, as well as the good stuff.

IMO this is basically scapegoating Source and/or the angels (specific ones) for our individual weaknesses and misaligned choices and behaviours, which is on so many levels just ridiculous. Unless there is a literal gun to your head (or equivalent), then it's about time we began to take ownership, and not by saying OK as of right now, bad is good and what we've been doing is now OK so carry on. But rather by saying, hey it's not OK and it's never been OK...it's time to man up and face the truth square in the eye. It's time we took the hard choices and quit perpetrating x, y, and z rubbish on those in our lives, full stop. And it's time to see why we used to need these rather vile archetypes...to hold our fear and our hatred for women and for our own weaknesses. That's why revisiting these archetypes and how we view them is so meaningful, IMO.

Peace & blessings
7L

People hang on to 'old' traditions thinking that these are what 'give' their 'present' lives meaning, legitimacy, a sense of belonging, security, etc. - like what's involved in 'ancestor worship', and 'revered lineages' of gurus and disciples, reams/scrolls of 'holy scriptures', 'popes', 'royal families', etc. They have all had a creative function in terms of helping humanity (civilization?) to evolve to its present point, but they are clearly a 'drag' and, in many cases very counterproductive, in terms of 'humanity' evolving further NOW. (Not that such 'traditional' sources can't be selectively 'gleaned' for perspective, wisdom, advice, etc., mind you - I personally do a lot of such 'gleaning' myself.)

Clearly though, it's high time that 'new' Source-Manifestation and Yin-Yang archetypes (models? understandings?) fully overdub, and so functionally replace, the 'old' in psyche-space.

Here's a video which I think can help uproot whatever 'grip' Eve and Adam and/or Lilith and Adam stereotypes still have in the minds of those who 'grok' its (the video's) 'message:

https://www.facebook.com/10001143954...3239037067409/

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by davidsun

People hang on to 'old' traditions thinking that these are what 'give' their 'present' lives meaning, legitimacy, a sense of belonging, security, etc. - like what's involved in 'ancestor worship', and 'revered lineages' of gurus and disciples, reams/scrolls of 'holy scriptures', 'popes', 'royal families', etc. They have all had a creative function in terms of helping humanity (civilization?) to evolve to its present point, but they are clearly a 'drag' and, in many cases very counterproductive, in terms of 'humanity' evolving further NOW. (Not that such 'traditional' sources can't be selectively 'gleaned' for perspective, wisdom, advice, etc., mind you - I personally do a lot of such 'gleaning' myself.)

Clearly though, it's high time that 'new' Source-Manifestation and Yin-Yang archetypes (models? understandings?) fully overdub, and so functionally replace, the 'old' in psyche-space.

Here's a video which I think can help uproot whatever 'grip' Eve and Adam and/or Lilith and Adam stereotypes still have in the minds of those who 'grok' its (the video's) 'message:

https://www.facebook.com/10001143954...3239037067409/

DavidSun, hello there and I really appreciate your affirmation. I couldn't agree more. Whatever power many of these traditional archetypes has, comes from our understanding of our relationship with ourselves, others, Spirit, and all that is. In many cases, that power is an artificial power-over, which as you say may have served some purpose in the distant past but our willing participation in our own mind control is no longer is required or healthy.

The dictation of our history and our archetypes and what they mean has often been misused, to oppress and control. It is the result of having given our power of understanding and ownership away at earlier points in time. We are ready now and in many cases, we are long overdue to reclaim our understanding and our ownership of our own stories.

The thing is, none of this is "natural" as some folks may assume. So I want to speak to that more in my response to you and thanks for your patience I feel that the unqualified use of that term (natural) is extremely misleading when we speak of sentient, self-aware beings with highly developed cultures and social structures. In fact, whatever humanity has been conditioned or acculturated to will seem "natural". That is, we create what is natural and right for us, and that is what will seem natural and right.

That is why the spiritual journey is so important to each of us, and to humanity as a whole. The spiritual journey is all about opening to authentic love and to Spirit, and aligning ourselves with the Authentic Love that is the ground of all being. The journey yields (or is intended to do so) a deeper apprehension that what is most natural is in fact exactly equivalent to what is most manifestly aligned with authentic love. What is manifest authentic love? Actively desiring and actively seeking the good of the other(s) equally to the self, and of self to others.


(((natural))) = (((authentic love)))


P.S. thanks for the vid link - I will check it out.
Peace & blessings
7L