I'm going to become selfish

[Shivani Devi]

Part 2

It isn't like I haven't been doing anything with the past 20 years of my life besides meditating and talking to God...

During that time I have fully digested thousands of books on religion and spirituality, from the Vijnana Bhairava Tantra, to the Dhammapada, to the Celestine Prophecy, to Abhinavagupta and Thich Nhat Hanh to Alan Watts and Terence McKenna, to Gangaji, Stuart Wilde, Dan Millman, Ekhardt Tolle, Wayne Dyer, Louise Hay, Sonia Choquette, Gregg Braden, Bruce Lipton, Deepak Chopra and the list goes on...and on...and on.

I also have an interest in Sacred Geometry, Forbidden Archaeology, Ancient Languages, Alternative Histories and have read all stuff by Graham Hancock, Zekeriah Sitchin, David Hatcher- Childress, David Wilcock, Georgio Tsoukalos, Erich Von Daniken etc

As far as Ancient Languages are concerned, my biggest challenge is still trying to decipher the RongoRongo script found on Easter Island, so that I can understand the inscriptions made at Mojendro Dharo and Harappa...however, if I could equate Sanskrit with Ancient Javanese script in order to learn Tibetan, anything is possible. lol

So, back to the topic.

Originally Posted by Lightseer

If you truly have no one to talk to offline then you could approach that, maybe through your therapist? You really shouldn't be having that much problems with your meds, your doctor is there to help you manage any side effects and to minimise them. Clearly you are suffering and from what you say your side effects are out of control, no one should have to tolerate that no matter what meds they are on. Talk to your doctor and try some other meds if they deem necessary. You shouldn't have to deal with out of control meds side effect as well as the problems you are taking them for!

I am seeing a Neuropsychiatrist, a Psychologist, two counsellors and a peer-support worker and I have been seeing them for the past two years...nothing much has changed.

Lemme see now, I have tried EMDR, EFT, CBT, Hypnotherapy, Acceptance Commitment Therapy, Life Evaluation Therapy, Mindfulness, four different types of meds...this thing is as stubborn as all get-out and doesn't respond to anything.

I have an appointment to see my Neuropsychiatrist again the day after tomorrow and one of my counsellors the day after that, so I shall mention it...but I know...I KNOW I have to make the long trip into Sydney on a regular basis to find 'my tribe' and to participate in those passtimes and activities I once enjoyed and see if that makes any difference. Sometimes I feel like if I could just go to a lively kirtan again...mix with people I could actually talk about my stuff with - and after three years I have painfully learned that I will NOT find them on this forum...even though I hang around in hope, waiting for that day, then everything will be fine.

Originally Posted by Lightseer

No amount of forum sympathy or online *hugs* emoticons will ever help you. Your pain is deep and have been around for a long time. There is help out there but you need to get your doctor to sort out the meds and get you a good therapist.

Yes, I fully realise and understand that. I am not here for 'sympathy' or 'empathy' or 'online hugs' or whatever else...I am here to try and make some kind of human connection.

However, I also realise how farcical that is as well, because most times, the majority of posts/threads/situations are NOT 'interactive'! It's like everybody is contributing a few sentences or a chapter of their own to a book and couldn't care LESS what anybody else thinks or has said! I hardly get any feedback or replies to anything I post/write now and if I am seeking 'connection' over mere 'expression', I am totally wasting my time and I'd much rather write a book myself. There are only about half a dozen people who will talk to me on here now and I am very appreciative when they do...as for the rest, I would get more feedback from a Chatbot.

Part 3 will follow later.

selfish "are" and be a kick from the
wounded. it keeps staring. it's reality
needs strength and or something
from eased projection. eased
projection shall always work

i assume selfish overdoes in a hangup.
i assume eased projection is are and be
the life

[SerendipityLizard]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Then they showed chimpanzees cracking open nuts using a stone anvil and a stone pounding tool. There was this one female chimp who had the anvil and nuts, but looked all over for a pounding stone and couldn't find one...So, she approached a male chimp, busy pounding nuts open...made some coo-ing sounds, pointed in the direction of her stone anvil and then held out her hand...and...The Male chimp gave her his pounding stone!

This touched something deep inside me and in that moment, I realised human beings are nothing like chimps...Maybe we can learn from them and maybe there's hope for the species yet.

Fascinating to heat from David Atternborough. I remember reading the book called Our Inner Ape — by leading primatologist Frans de Waal that heralded an experiment on different apes.

The apes were given the task that needed them to share food with the other apes to gain a reward, and when this was done, these apes practiced sharing from then on.

It’s interesting how we think of primates as acting only on instincts — when there apes can also learn from their social group — and create their own cultures. This is for example — how different apes from different areas would learn to crack their food open with unique materials to those areas. There. Social evolution.

It’s a shame that people popularize natural selection as survival of the fittest when more recent research has began studying how cooperation is built into natural selection. In economics, they call it game theory — where they created the idea of nonzero sum games — win-wins for all, and I recall a book I’ve forgotten studied the correlation of game theory to cooperation in evolution.

I really hope human beings can evolve in better ways as well.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

...and of course, my Higher Self reminds me that this is why those with genocidal tendencies like to do everything online as it is the "way of the future" and covers everything from grocery shopping, to paying bills, to having spiritual conversations.

With the world's population growing more than the world can support it, wouldn't human ingenuity come up with a formal queue ticketing or appointment system for those who want to do things the "old way" by going into the bank to make a transaction, going into a shop to be served or going into the utility company to pay a bill?
.

Haha, I agree. So much kindness can be shown with just more efficiency in the world, you know? My memory is vague, but I believe similar ideas in different cultures. For example, Japan is known for its discipline, and it really shows in how they organize themselves in a line during an evacuation for a natural disaster.

I wish some people can learn from Japan. Perhaps VIP services are less efficient. I’d prefer a more cultural factor to discipline and taking turns more similar to this country. Of course, Japan has its weaknesses like all different countries, but we can learn from each others’ strengths.

[SerendipityLizard]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Part 2

I am seeing a Neuropsychiatrist, a Psychologist, two counsellors and a peer-support worker and I have been seeing them for the past two years...nothing much has changed.

Lemme see now, I have tried EMDR, EFT, CBT, Hypnotherapy, Acceptance Commitment Therapy, Life Evaluation Therapy, Mindfulness, four different types of meds...this thing is as stubborn as all get-out and doesn't respond to anything.

Yes, I fully realise and understand that. I am not here for 'sympathy' or 'empathy' or 'online hugs' or whatever else...I am here to try and make some kind of human connection.

However, I also realise how farcical that is as well, because most times, the majority of posts/threads/situations are NOT 'interactive'! It's like everybody is contributing a few sentences or a chapter of their own to a book and couldn't care LESS what anybody else thinks or has said!

Part 3 will follow later.

I get your point, Shivani. I’ve seen a lot of how effortful and how long recovering from PTSD in the trauma community can be. Some take years, and a few even decades. I got treatment very early — so I’m lucky to find myself recovering better than those I’ve seen around there. I’m sorry to hear that you were one of the worse off cases, and I wish you the best.

It’s really impressive how analytical you’ve gotten with this recovering — haha, I’ve been like that myself, and you’re a lot more knowledgable than me. I’ve tried over 10 therapies and read everything on recovery I could find — it took forever and I’m still affected at times.

Then add to that also being autistic, dyspraxic and having Sensory Processing Disorder. — that can be . . . unpleasant. I can get defensive myself too — I mean, I’m a lot calmer in how I talk to people now — even more full of humor than I used to be, but there tends to be a part of me I’m hiding where I’m on guard and a little jittery. I’m used to being treated badly in social situations, and while life situations have calmed down and gotten better, it still feels like I’m way back in the past sometimes.

I guess I just need some time — one thing I learned that there’s no trick to it once you’ve done all the research and effort — sometimes certain practices to heal have to be repeated. Over and over and over. I wish it wasn’t that hard, but hey, life isn’t always that easy.

I’ve had similar thoughts — wondering if anything really has been changing at all — and maybe you’re different, but it’s nice to hope in seeing the small amounts of progress. If incredibly horrible somehow turned to just . . . horrible, then maybe there really is something changing.

Somehow I just made peace with just accepting my unstable emotional state at times as it is — I don’t know if my nervous system will ever fully calm down, but I can be at least be gentle and accepting with myself as I deal with it. Satisfaction I find — isn’t always found only when you’re happy.

But hey, that’s just me. Haha, why readily believe someone who’s shaking in anxiety from shyness in trying to talk to you here how?

Well, see you around, Shivani. Just wanted to say I liked you too.

[SerendipityLizard]

Originally Posted by Lightseer

But you are online having 'spiritual conversations' yourself!

Why would you assume people who shop online want to kill people and are more likely to be violent? Surely those types would be more likely to go to physical shopping places to cause trouble? Also, not sure if you realise but genocidal means to want to destroy and kill by race or ethnic group.

And what about disabled, sick and elderly who shop etc. online?

But surely if more people do stuff online that means less queues and surely then you would want that?

The next time you're in that situation talk to the people in the queue. I find that people are mostly fair and if you just talk to them it can mostly be sorted out. Also, the person serving knows who was there and who wasn't five minutes before so just speak up for yourself and you'll be fine.

Often we get what we project and you should consider projecting peaceful respect instead of confrontation. Try it!

I’d like to politely say that iit is a pretty accurate idea that genocidal people can be found more on the net. The Dark Net is a part of the internet where your identity is anonymous, and no one can track your area down — this is the ultimate place for hiding in plain sight criminals can find, and the best way to remain unknown when buying illegal items. What a better way to do a crime without anyone knowing who you are?

Also, to conclude that her situation is the same is based on inaccurate data and personal experiences. Basic idea from my research class before is to have a population sample from randomized varying backgrounds to get it right.

From my study of different countries, different cultures and different areas have varying expressions of how they show respect in a line. Every place has their own unique societal issues, and it often varies.

"you keep doing" a nice job
with not being down past
moderatable and you shall
be fine"

[Lightseer]

Originally Posted by SerendipityLizard

It’s a shame that people popularize natural selection as survival of the fittest when more recent research has began studying how cooperation is built into natural selection. In economics, they call it game theory — where they created the idea of nonzero sum games — win-wins for all, and I recall a book I’ve forgotten studied the correlation of game theory to cooperation in evolution.

So many misunderstand the 'survival of the fittest'. At its basic level it is only about the 'success' of those who reproduce within an environment they have adapted to (and have passed on genes, which is flawed again due to the way mutation works). The whole idea is flawed anyway. It means that the 'fittest' could be violent mindless zombies if they somehow managed to reproduce while other races/species died out. It was a theory intended to back up the eugenics movement and it is anti-equality on every level. Zero sum games are also flawed and both of those theories (SOTF and ZSG) go against the meaning of why we exist. Although having the experience of them is okay if that is what you choose to do at a particular time.

Anyone who thinks they can 'win' by competing to cause the other to 'lose' will eventually learn a valuable lesson about loss themselves.

[Lightseer]

Originally Posted by SerendipityLizard

I’d like to politely say that iit is a pretty accurate idea that genocidal people can be found more on the net. The Dark Net is a part of the internet where your identity is anonymous, and no one can track your area down — this is the ultimate place for hiding in plain sight criminals can find, and the best way to remain unknown when buying illegal items. What a better way to do a crime without anyone knowing who you are?

Why do people keep saying "genocidal" when in fact they mean homicidal? Surely you don't think internet use predisposes people to wanting to kill whole races?

Thing is Shivani Devi referred to the whole of the internet, including discussion forums such as this one, not some far off dark website somewhere. The 'Dark'/black web, net, deep web etc. is not all about criminal activity. For example if you have ever used online banking you have used it! All large organisation, governments etc. use those parts of the net. It is down to having solid encryption and protection.

There will always be criminals and people who want to harm others or even kill people, but there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support the theory that more of those 'types' use the internet than others. Shivani Devi even wrote that people who are more violent and would be more likely to kill (see their post earlier in thread) would be more likely to use online shopping! That makes no sense if you consider it.

Going on what else Shivani Devi has written (hi Shivani Devi ) they suffer from a lot of fear (due to mental health issues they are dealing with) and other issues, which may mean they assume danger where there is none. Assuming there is a disproportionate amount of dangerous people on the internet could be a symptom of their PTSD, and I have found that to be a common belief in people who suffer from PTSD. Encouraging that thinking is not healthy and generalisations without any evidence to back it up are unhelpful to say the least.

[Lightseer]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Part 2

It isn't like I haven't been doing anything with the past 20 years of my life besides meditating and talking to God...

You sound a bit defensive.

What would be wrong with doing that if you had 'just' done that? People do exactly that and reach great spiritual heights!

You mentioned the numerous books you have read, but actually it is those who think reading and joining all sorts of groups (like you mentioned) who get nowhere. You won't find what you are looking for in a book. Most of those books are written by people who are also just seeking for themselves. Reading is fine but it will only get you so far. As you have noted you have still not got where you want to be (and it has got worse you said) so maybe stop reading all the books, or trying a hundred different therapies, or joining one religious/spiritual group after another and 'just' mediate and listen to God for 20 years!

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I am seeing a Neuropsychiatrist, a Psychologist, two counsellors and a peer-support worker and I have been seeing them for the past two years...nothing much has changed.

Lemme see now, I have tried EMDR, EFT, CBT, Hypnotherapy, Acceptance Commitment Therapy, Life Evaluation Therapy, Mindfulness, four different types of meds...this thing is as stubborn as all get-out and doesn't respond to anything.

You may not want to hear this but maybe it is you who is stubborn? There is no such thing as "this thing", you are the "thing", it does not exist without you! By placing it outside of you like that you are avoiding your own responsibility in your issues.

It sounds like you have made your problems you whole life and identity and now the problem you have is not just getting well but who you fear you will be after you are well. The "what then" problem that people with long term mental health issues face all the time. Sometimes that is harder to get through than the issues themselves. If you haven't made any improvement after all of that and your PTSD is not improving after 5-8 years then you may be fearing getting well and what that means for you. Also, you say you have no social life or family and you may fear the loss of your mental health support network if you get well. You might want to try discusses with your psychologist and how that would be dealt with and that may reassure you.

Why would you be seeing TWO counsellors? It sounds like you are collecting people! You say you have 5 people talking to you all the time about your issues but then you posted that you have "no one to talk to"? You really need to open up to your therapist.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

but I know...I KNOW I have to make the long trip into Sydney on a regular basis to find 'my tribe' and to participate in those passtimes and activities I once enjoyed and see if that makes any difference. Sometimes I feel like if I could just go to a lively kirtan again...mix with people I could actually talk about my stuff with - and after three years I have painfully learned that I will NOT find them on this forum...even though I hang around in hope, waiting for that day, then everything will be fine.

It is good you have realised that no internet contact can replace human contact. But wishing to return to the past might be undermining your recovery.

You might want to have some frank discussion with the person who referred you to TWO counsellors and discuss a better solution. To be honest your mental health team and meds could be much better managed. Also the four meds in two years as well, with no progress! You need to get more assertive with your mental health team and get the care you need.

[Lightseer]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I really appreciated that.

You're welcome.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I am not sure how it can 'add to people's problems', as I can only see things from my own point of view. All I can say in regards to that, is that while ever these problems exist, with the attachment to them/influence of them, certain spiritual goals and ideals (spiritual growth) comes to an abrupt standstill and cannot be enjoyed, realised or actuated because 'psychological problems' get in the way.

Sometimes spiritual work can get in the way of healing from other psychological issues too!

It is best to have a balance. But to dive into deep spiritual practices while having PTSD can be very difficult for someone and can complicate things.

It does depend on what you are doing and meds makes it worse, but you could try some other things.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

These 'deep spiritual practices' are something that have been with me all my life, basically and it isn't something I have just started...it is nothing new.

But from what you say your problems stem from childhood so you had the problems before starting the spiritual practices.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Now, to witness people's bodies being totally mutilated with poles, spears, giant fish hooks, knives...no blood, no pain and they were all smiling and laughing or in trance and blissed out to the max in absolute love and joy was quite impressionable...it left me going "whatever they are on, I want some of THAT!"

Why do you think that appealed to you?

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I returned to my hotel room, went to make my bed and had to move it away from the wall...underneath the bed, I saw a book...all dusty and tattered like it had been there for months "Lord Siva and His Worship" by Swami Sivananda...my prayers had been answered.

People do tend to bring their psychological lessons to themselves. Trouble is they often mistake them for something else.

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

When I was 18, we came back to Australia and I immediately joined the Theosophical Society, the Self-Realisation Fellowship, the Satyananda Ashram and The Hare Krishna Movement (although being a devotee of Lord Shiva, I didn't stay there for long)

After your previous experience why do you think you did that?

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

When I was 21, I married my Yoga teacher, a Hindu Brahmin priest and sadhu some 20 years my senior who gave up his vows to make me his wife..

It is interesting to note that people abused by fathers often go on to marry older men. It doesn't help though and can make matters worse. Is he whom you had your child with? You didn't say if your child was a son or daughter?

Obviously you don't have to answer, but why did the marriage end? Did he retain a relationship with your child?