Anattā (no self)

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

' Any thoughts '


No

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

So Anatta is really about no ego, not a soul that is made up of some objects located in some place.

Maybe the follow teachings will help us understand.



Now it mentions the following 3 aspects essence, nature and energy.

It is important to understand what they are as that make up the Primordial State.



We discussed the practice of Shine to realize the calm state, the movement and rigpa earlier.

Any thoughts?

The three aspects make sense to me. I don’t understand through teachings alone, but certainly through my own experiences it all fits the whole.
I think a lot of conflict in these discussions comes through the break down of theses three aspects.
Each person trying to master where their focus is and protecting that focus.
Looking in to this, protection is containment of the self.
If your truly aware and practising presence through your own clarity and true nature, you would be aware there is nothing to fix. Those protective stances would be obselete in your own mind and being. Those guarded moments where one has to source their arguments through another’s view to make their own, more right, more true, or more clear are really not ok being a presence alone in their own clarity of being. The wise self has no guards in place. It just knows and is aware as it’s own presence.

It’s in those unguarded moments you see others playing games with themselves, which is fine. Until the unreal is seen and often expressed, clarity and movement differently, won’t be forthcoming. So as I see, most are clearing out through the written form those parts of their being, unable to find themselves in real life in this way. It’s safe here.



The energetic component is activation to “remember” through clarity and the true self. It doesn’t matter whether your a master or mastering your own true self, you can still activate through this means, because within clarity of all beings, (being whole in essence, that already is) there is movement and awareness conscious or not, moving through the whole stream of self, regardless. The energy is the aliveness that activates awareness deeper, to notice, feel, become aware of. So the potential is not within the master alone. The potential is within the whole dynamic of each person relating as they are. In this view presence is about being “present” with all things, to master deeper presence and clarity ongoing. In my view this way, we are all masters, mastering through what we know, where we are at any given moment.

Many talk about non attachment here, long before they have let go of their own to themselves. Looking into that, you have to wonder why they can’t see their own walls guarding and protecting their ideas, beliefs how one should be in a Buddhist thread, how and what does or doesn’t relate, who’s right and who is wrong. Who’s confused and who is taking positions.

All I can say is this.

It’s amusing..

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by JustBe

The three aspects make sense to me. I don’t understand through teachings alone, but certainly through my own experiences it all fits the whole.
I think a lot of conflict in these discussions comes through the break down of theses three aspects.
Each person trying to master where their focus is and protecting that focus.
Looking in to this, protection is containment of the self.
If your truly aware and practising presence through your own clarity and true nature, you would be aware there is nothing to fix. Those protective stances would be obselete in your own mind and being. Those guarded moments where one has to source their arguments through another’s view to make their own, more right, more true, or more clear are really not ok being a presence alone in their own clarity of being. The wise self has no guards in place. It just knows and is aware as it’s own presence.

It’s in those unguarded moments you see others playing games with themselves, which is fine. Until the unreal is seen and often expressed, clarity and movement differently, won’t be forthcoming. So as I see, most are clearing out through the written form those parts of their being, unable to find themselves in real life in this way. It’s safe here.



The energetic component is activation to “remember” through clarity and the true self. It doesn’t matter whether your a master or mastering your own true self, you can still activate through this means, because within clarity of all beings, (being whole in essence, that already is) there is movement and awareness conscious or not, moving through the whole stream of self, regardless. The energy is the aliveness that activates awareness deeper, to notice, feel, become aware of. So the potential is not within the master alone. The potential is within the whole dynamic of each person relating as they are. In this view presence is about being “present” with all things, to master deeper presence and clarity ongoing. In my view this way, we are all masters, mastering through what we know, where we are at any given moment.

Thank you, so you agree with the following?

In the condition of the base there is no duality… When its primordial energy manifests it becomes the common ground of liberation and delusion… If at the moment the energy of the base manifests, one does not consider it something other than oneself, and one recognizes one’s own state as the indivisibility of essence, nature and energy, the movement of energy self-liberates…

Now with energy and remember the above about non duality, nothing indivisible from oneself.

The third of the three primordial wisdoms is energy. Its
characteristic is that it manifests without interruption.4 The
explanation of energy in Dzogchen is fundamental to understanding
the base. All dimensions, whether pure or impure,
material or subtle, are manifestations of one aspect or
another of energy.

Do you agree that energy/all manifestation in all dimensions is everything as taught above and that is not separate from you?

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Thank you so you agree with the following.



Now with energy and remember the above about no duality, indivisible from oneself.



Do you agree that energy is everything as taught above that is not separate from you?

I don’t need the teaching to know what I experience first hand. I am not the person you need to convince...lol

I’ve worked with energy ignorance in others,only to have them become aware of it through direct transmission. Aware of their own and what exists within all life.

My wise self all the same doesn’t need to focus there. It’s just an aspect of the whole, mind/body/spirit awareness in me.

As s presence now as my true self, I’m more conscious of allowing what moves through the connection to be as it needs to be. I’m not the doer doing anything. I don’t need to make something happen as I am, unless of course I am intuitively guided in trust of everything within the shared space. (Sometimes people need a listening ear, sometimes they need a hug, sometimes they may just need to sit in silence with you, sometimes they may need to uproot an issue with your supportt aware of them as they are, sometimes they might need to just need to blow something out, the support of others is endless)

Energy is your focus.

Presence is now mine

[JustBe]

As you realize deeper yourself beyond energy and more as presence, the clarity speaks for itself. That is the non doer aspect. The light to shine on others, has opened to itself.

It’s a way of being, not doing.

Choices to be anything you are realised for yourself, become the gift to all life in those realizations, when your clear.

I know someone who can shelve her issues to support others, my sense is she receives through her giving. It supports her to receive through those she supports, to help clear the way for her. It’s the way some choose. It’s her way.

Someone who chooses a meditation path where one faces himself through presence alone, is no different. We choose the way, but the way will find us, in that choice. You can’t escape what is seeking you

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by JustBe

I don’t need the teaching to know what I experience first hand. I am not the person you need to convince...lol

I’ve worked with energy ignorance in others,only to have them become aware of it through direct transmission. Aware of their own and what exists within all life.

My wise self all the same doesn’t need to focus there. It’s just an aspect of the whole, mind/body/spirit awareness in me.

As s presence now as my true self, I’m more conscious of allowing what moves through the connection to be as it needs to be. I’m not the doer doing anything. I don’t need to make something happen as I am, unless of course I am intuitively guided in trust of everything within the shared space. (Sometimes people need a listening ear, sometimes they need a hug, sometimes they may just need to sit in silence with you, sometimes they may need to uproot an issue with your supportt aware of them as they are, sometimes they might need to just need to blow something out, the support of others is endless)

Energy is your focus.

Presence is now mine

I was asking a question not trying to convince anyone.

Based on your answer, you disagree with the teachings.

Thanks.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I was asking a question not trying to convince anyone.

Based on your answer, you disagree with the teachings.

Thanks.

Obviously you didn’t read my very first opening line in my first response.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

I was asking a question not trying to convince anyone.

Based on your answer, you disagree with the teachings.

Thanks.

“The three aspects make sense to me. I don’t understand through teachings alone, but certainly through my own experiences it all fits the whole.”

It’s not about agreeing. I understand them through direct experience and awareness.

For me it’s about understanding what the teachings point to as myself.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by JustBe

“The three aspects make sense to me. I don’t understand through teachings alone, but certainly through my own experiences it all fits the whole.”

It’s not about agreeing. I understand them through direct experience and awareness.

For me it’s about understanding what the teachings point to as myself.

Sounds good to me.

Thanks.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Sounds good to me.

Thanks.

When you read more carefully and listen to more, beyond only what you want to hear, you begin to understand deeper what people are trying to convey and actually say. If your truly listening through that openness in yourself, you will hear.
You then understand more in yourself. Your listening to more in yourself.your open to more in yourself.

I call this spaciousness/expansion most naturally..