Dalai Lama

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

A remarkable man and always good for a quotable quote!

My favourite:
'Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer'

Wise indeed, Thank you Dear Knightofalbion

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

"When receiving the teachings, it is important to have the correct attitude. It is not practicing the Dharma properly to listen with the intention of gaining material advantage or reputation. Neither should our goal be higher rebirth in the next life, nor should we be wishing only for our own liberation from samsara. These are all attitudes we should reject. Instead, let us listen to the teachings with the determined wish to attain the state of omniscience for the sake of all beings."

HH ( His Holiness ) The 14th Dalai Lama Tenzin Gyatso.

Heh. I like the guy. He's not blowing smoke around. I remember a little video I liked a lot where he talked about meditation, because what he said was nothing, something very mundane, and I liked it precisely because it's unremarkable (and of course his little chuckles ). Ironically, I remark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTCRdM71j2E

[Joe Mc]

Very interesting Gem, nice Clip. I mean you got me thinking of 'religious teachers or spiritual teachers' lets say. It seems as if the Dalai Lama is one of those teachers who doesn't have or display huge powers of shaktipat or its not associated with him? It's like as if he is saying very mundanely, this is what you could do etc. and letting you do the work. I've never thought about this up until today. So he is letting you do the work which in one way is very generous because he is not asking for anything in return ? On the other hand you have teachers from the past and present i think who to sit in their presence you are instantly elevated into some higher state or they deliberating transfer energy to you to elevate you into that state. What i was thinking that that is a temporary thing perhaps ..i mean the second type of teacher ..where as peeps like the Dali Lama are offering a more lasting truth which becomes yours in a sense. These are just a couple of ideas unformulated, as i said i never really saw it like this before. However when i did go and see the DL a couple of years ago, i was emotionally very high for a couple of months after ? Just some food for thought what do you think ?

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

Very interesting Gem, nice Clip. I mean you got me thinking of 'religious teachers or spiritual teachers' lets say. It seems as if the Dalai Lama is one of those teachers who doesn't have or display huge powers of shaktipat or its not associated with him? It's like as if he is saying very mundanely, this is what you could do etc. and letting you do the work. I've never thought about this up until today. So he is letting you do the work which in one way is very generous because he is not asking for anything in return ? On the other hand you have teachers from the past and present i think who to sit in their presence you are instantly elevated into some higher state or they deliberating transfer energy to you to elevate you into that state. What i was thinking that that is a temporary thing perhaps ..i mean the second type of teacher ..where as peeps like the Dali Lama are offering a more lasting truth which becomes yours in a sense. These are just a couple of ideas unformulated, as i said i never really saw it like this before. However when i did go and see the DL a couple of years ago, i was emotionally very high for a couple of months after ? Just some food for thought what do you think ?

I love reading your posts, JoeMc, particularly:

"On the other hand you have teachers from the past and present i think who to sit in their presence you are instantly elevated into some higher state or they deliberating transfer energy to you to elevate you into that state."

Thoughts are tangible objects which can be viewed in the form of brain waves on machines in intensive care units. Dr. David Hawkins did experiments with meditation students who demonstrated that the brain waves associated with intentional negative thoughts had low amplitude and low frequency (translating into low energy) while intentional positive thoughts had high amplitude and high frequency (translating into high energy). Some of the Buddhist monks from the Dalai Lama's following were tested at the University of Wisconsin and their brain wave frequencies were even higher when monitored while doing the Metta (Loving Kindness) meditation.

When one meets even more advanced beings, the "nada" "nothingness" waves are so peaceful that they radiate peace and induce that extraordinary peace in those around them. I don't think that they "deliberately transfer energy to you to elevate you to that state", but I'm not going to speculate on the intentions of others. It just happens and my sense is that any attempt to explain the process would prove inadequate. Nonetheless, if one is receptive, one can feel that energy and thus recognize these great souls abiding in the proverbial peace that surpasseth all understanding. I recall such happenings with a revered Taoist master in Chengdu (China), several solitary sages at the Khumba Mela in Haridwar (India), the Grand Zen Master in Gyungju (South Korea), a shaman on the Niger River in Mali, a "homeless" black sage in NYC, and others. It's awesomely peaceful and elevating and not as uncommon as people think. There's more to this, as revelations manifest in this peaceful stillness, but that's sufficient for now.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

Very interesting Gem, nice Clip. I mean you got me thinking of 'religious teachers or spiritual teachers' lets say. It seems as if the Dalai Lama is one of those teachers who doesn't have or display huge powers of shaktipat or its not associated with him?

It's all in reverse, and in the spiritual performance, when you take down the lights and effects and all the production, it's just a guy with a guitar, and it's great to be a star, but if you can't play the street, you can't actually play.

It's like as if he is saying very mundanely, this is what you could do etc. and letting you do the work. I've never thought about this up until today. So he is letting you do the work which in one way is very generous because he is not asking for anything in return ? On the other hand you have teachers from the past and present i think who to sit in their presence you are instantly elevated into some higher state or they deliberating transfer energy to you to elevate you into that state. What i was thinking that that is a temporary thing perhaps ..i mean the second type of teacher ..where as peeps like the Dali Lama are offering a more lasting truth which becomes yours in a sense. These are just a couple of ideas unformulated, as i said i never really saw it like this before. However when i did go and see the DL a couple of years ago, i was emotionally very high for a couple of months after ? Just some food for thought what do you think ?

I believe so, a more lasting truth, because the 'energy work' sort of thing is OK for what it is, and I did get involved in that for a short time myself, but something seemed out of place, so I then declined and desisted. It wasn't until much later that I articulated this as a meaning in my mind as aversions toward some of the sensations and desires for wonderful things can mislead a person easily into temptations and forms of greed, and I understood that I left the 'energy work' sort of things because I am not of self wanting so much as my wishes are of mutuality of well-being for everything. Later on I learned the meditation in the Buddhist tradition including the practice of metta, which was better aligned with my personal values.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I love reading your posts, JoeMc, particularly:

"On the other hand you have teachers from the past and present i think who to sit in their presence you are instantly elevated into some higher state or they deliberating transfer energy to you to elevate you into that state."

Thank you that's kind of you to say so.

Thoughts are tangible objects which can be viewed in the form of brain waves on machines in intensive care units. Dr. David Hawkins did experiments with meditation students who demonstrated that the brain waves associated with intentional negative thoughts had low amplitude and low frequency (translating into low energy) while intentional positive thoughts had high amplitude and high frequency (translating into high energy). Some of the Buddhist monks from the Dalai Lama's following were tested at the University of Wisconsin and their brain wave frequencies were even higher when monitored while doing the Metta (Loving Kindness) meditation.

Very interesting indeed, i love when there is this type of corroboration, i find it inspiring and i know there has been a great deal of work done in this area in recent times. I think it is Mathieu Ricard, a former French Physicist and monk of the Gelugpa school who has been involved in some of this work. It's really wonderful.

When one meets even more advanced beings, the "nada" "nothingness" waves are so peaceful that they radiate peace and induce that extraordinary peace in those around them. I don't think that they "deliberately transfer energy to you to elevate you to that state", but I'm not going to speculate on the intentions of others. It just happens and my sense is that any attempt to explain the process would prove inadequate. Nonetheless, if one is receptive, one can feel that energy and thus recognize these great souls abiding in the proverbial peace that surpasseth all understanding. I recall such happenings with a revered Taoist master in Chengdu (China), several solitary sages at the Khumba Mela in Haridwar (India), the Grand Zen Master in Gyungju (South Korea), a shaman on the Niger River in Mali, a "homeless" black sage in NYC, and others. It's awesomely peaceful and elevating and not as uncommon as people think. There's more to this, as revelations manifest in this peaceful stillness, but that's sufficient for now.

Ahh Excellent ! I'm so glad you have got to met these sages, what a wonderful array of elevated souls. Yes indeed, i think the point i was trying to make and it is a minor point of investigation..is that i've heard stories from Ramana Ashram for example where seekers where truly elevated by his pure presence only to feel very panicked if that is the word when they were leaving the ashram to join the outside word. It is said he re-aassured them by saying i am going nowhere, i suppose he was saying i abide in all places, everywhere and nowhere type of thing ? Sorry im being very general here. So i think i came to a realisation this morning moved by the very pragmatic nature of the DL teachings. Like that old chinese proverb, give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach him how to fish and you feed him for life. But hey these world analogies are hardly adequate to explain anything and i certainly take on board what your saying about these advanced souls. I suppose alot depends on the receptivity and readiness of the seeker at the time?

Although i havent been to such wonderful places and i think its truly magnificient that you have seen and taken darshan with these sages, i can relate to the nyc guy lets say. I spent quite a few years in London and i have definitely met at least a couple of 'Divine Madmen' is the term i used once. I hope i am not injuring them by using that term madmen. Anyway they lived very unpredictablely, arrived in places like buddhist centres etc. I think i could take a certain amount of their unpredictability and then i would reach the end of my tether lol and that was my karma at the time. Sorry for rambling on and thank you for your very inspiring and informative reply. :) Joe

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Gem

It's all in reverse, and in the spiritual performance, when you take down the lights and effects and all the production, it's just a guy with a guitar, and it's great to be a star, but if you can't play the street, you can't actually play.

I get what your saying Gem Rock and Roll. Great analogy, smoke and mirrors it surely is sometimes, thanks for sharing.

I committed once to a teacher as best i could, i was young hardly out of me teenage years and the guys who were around this teacher had been to university etc.. i later went to university encouraged by these seekers to do so. My committment was naive in a sense as i tried to see the teacher as the buddha lol although i didn't know what it meant .. i would be cleaning the windows in the buddhist centre and he would walk by me on his way to buy some scones or cakes for morning tea lol. Anyway one Saturday afternoon around lunchtime coming from a couple of hours working in a health food shop i had a kensho lets say in the middle of the street. Was this brought about by my naive commitment to this man ? I'm not sure but thanks for helping me remember and re-evaluate these things. hope you are well.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

I get what your saying Gem Rock and Roll. Great analogy, smoke and mirrors it surely is sometimes, thanks for sharing.

I committed once to a teacher as best i could, i was young hardly out of me teenage years and the guys who were around this teacher had been to university etc.. i later went to university encouraged by these seekers to do so. My committment was naive in a sense as i tried to see the teacher as the buddha lol although i didn't know what it meant .. i would be cleaning the windows in the buddhist centre and he would walk by me on his way to buy some scones or cakes for morning tea lol. Anyway one Saturday afternoon around lunchtime coming from a couple of hours working in a health food shop i had a kensho lets say in the middle of the street. Was this brought about by my naive commitment to this man ? I'm not sure but thanks for helping me remember and re-evaluate these things. hope you are well.

In my case, I've never been able to hold anyone in reverence, and it's a struggle for me actually in spiritual communities as I know what I say is double checked against what is in text, and it's easy for people to internalise a teacher and check their own insights against a memorised paradigm. I've never had the good fortune and have always floated without any 'knowing' with which to anchor or orient myself, but there is a bright side to it, and I don't think people start to 'look' seriously until they become uncertain. I have been involved with teachers anyway, and there is a level (which I adopted the Buddhist word 'Metta') and the people I worked with operate on that level. There are deeper sorts of ceremony I was included in, such as cleansing the meditation hall, where this sort of energy was especially concentrated, and I got a bit of a understanding into how the halls are kept as pure or sacred spaces, and there are particular benefits in meditating in such environments with teachers who are 'strong in metta' (as I phrase it).

[sky]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I_U3wrx6J8o

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by sky123

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I_U3wrx6J8o

lol very good thanks for sharing !!