It's not even that ..

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by sound

The experience comes before the label I feel daz ... take away the label and the sense is still 'felt' .. awareness doesn't rely on a word to support what is ...

Hi Kate ..

An experience is a label that one relates to having, whether on not the experience comes prior to the label ..

Something would be felt I agree but it would not be via sense cos our senses are labeled senses so one can relate to what is felt lol ..

So if we labeled our senses 'jelly and ice cream' we would be relying on our jelly and ice cream' in order to sense ..

Thus sense is not what it is ..

Something is happening for sure .. but its not even that .

x daz x

[sound]

What about a little baby daz ... s/he feels a breeze or the sun on their skin for the first time ... the babe does not know about labels, but the sensation is experienced all the same ... here, now, one is 'consciously' experiencing, through the senses, however many are 'known' ... the experience is 'had/known' in whatever 'way' ...

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hi Guys ..

Is anything what it appears or seems to be ..

x dazzle x

How could it be anything other than what it appears to be?

Is it what it will be 10 years from now...........no

Is it what it was 100 years ago....no

So what has changed.........................it has!

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by silent whisper

depends on how its reflecting.....

The thing is, is there 'something' reflecting apart from how it is reflecting to you or me.

Personally, I think it is a non-question.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by sound

What about a little baby daz ... s/he feels a breeze or the sun on their skin for the first time ... the babe does not know about labels, but the sensation is experienced all the same ... here, now, one is 'consciously' experiencing, through the senses, however many are 'known' ... the experience is 'had/known' in whatever 'way' ...

The funny thing is kate is that we can't even relate to non labes without using labels .. A baby in this instance isn't a baby if we remove the baby label, whatever we call 'it' it will not be 'it' . Which applies to everything that is of the mind .

In the physical world/environmet (which are yet more labels) one can relate to an experience being had and there would be something that happens to some extent via the so called senses, so when the so called wind blows upon one's so called face one can notice something happening ..

The 'baby' would not know of what one is supposedly sensing . It perhaps would notice something for sure but at an early stage it perhaps has no notion as to what that is nor what 'it is' that is sensing something .. The wind is blowing and it would not know that it is the wind that is .. other than what 'it' senses .. so we have a scenario where it knows not to what one is nor does it know what is supposedly causing something to be supposedly felt .. In hindsight and with an understanding of how one can relate we have labeled this experience as awareness based 'but its not even that' .

What a lovely place in mind to be .. things happening (supposedly) where there is no notion as to how, or why or as to what it is that is supposedly happening ..


x dazzle x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

How could it be anything other than what it appears to be?

Is it what it will be 10 years from now...........no

Is it what it was 100 years ago....no

So what has changed.........................it has!

I suppose James that if individuals can possibly see things differently to some extent then it will only appear to that individual how they see it .

x daz x

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Have a good sleep monkey ..

Well where does one start lol .. Human, senses, real. body, viryal, mind, lies. transparent, heart, spirit, strong, are just a handful of words that I have plucked from your post .. All labels used to describe something they are not . lol .

What is everything within mind built upon?? If we were speaking of a house then we would be speaking of a house built on sand lol ..

This labeling scenerio is so deep that is rocks the foundations of existence and free will etc .. Free will and all that jazz is one of the biggest issues raised that relates to our existence and 'free will' has no foundation when we strip back the labels ...

Like I said to sheriff Nev earlier in a post 'what is a rose' prior to what one has labeled a rose to be .. It is nothing, 'not even that' for nothing or something or saying 'it is what it is' is just another label ..

x daz x

Daz, btw I slept like a ROCK

If we are speaking of within mind, then as I said earlier, yes all is open to interpretation. Thicht Nhat Hahn has a lovely analogy for interbeing that helps with expansion of the mind's typical constraints and limitations. He discusses how the rose in all its beauty is only in process of becoming compost, and the compost in all its seeming decay is only in process of nurturing the rose seeds and becoming the rose. The rose is in its "flower state" for a momentary period, however, during that time, it is very much what it is. It is just that it is never separate from the other aspects of this existence. This is a simple example from the natural world and its connection to the eternal One or All, and yet the same analogies can be made within any other aspect of existence.

If you are speaking of what is from within heart/soul, from that perspective of consciousness, then you are grounded within yourself, and your interpretation of your experience has a connection to the eternal moment. And then it matters not what labels are used. For yes, as you Robbie & others have said, they are only labels, but they do not have to change or detract from the experience, from the moment itself. Unless, as pointers, they serve to focus your awareness upon the moment and your intimate connection to it.

As WS/James said, it is what it is now, and your perception of that is what defines your reality. The closer your live from your centre, the more aligned your mind's eye will be with your soul's eye. Where our normal 5 (or 6 ) senses are surrounded by another "sense", our soul's knowing.

And at some point, there is an acceptance within mind that mind itself no longer defines our reality but has instead begun instead to just translate or to simply channel the knowing of our soul. This acceptance often is preceded by a time of mental stress and anguish, of a deep existential experience of death and dying...the dying of the mind's rule to soul's ascendance.
Sorry for not having a more precise label for all this Dazzer -- pls pardon

Peace & blessings,
Amanda

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Have a good sleep monkey ..

Well where does one start lol .. Human, senses, real. body, viryal, mind, lies. transparent, heart, spirit, strong, are just a handful of words that I have plucked from your post .. All labels used to describe something they are not . lol .

What is everything within mind built upon?? If we were speaking of a house then we would be speaking of a house built on sand lol ..

This labeling scenerio is so deep that is rocks the foundations of existence and free will etc .. Free will and all that jazz is one of the biggest issues raised that relates to our existence and 'free will' has no foundation when we strip back the labels ...

Like I said to sheriff Nev earlier in a post 'what is a rose' prior to what one has labeled a rose to be .. It is nothing, 'not even that' for nothing or something or saying 'it is what it is' is just another label ..

x daz x

Daz, btw I slept like a ROCK

If we are speaking of within mind, then as I said earlier, yes all is open to interpretation. Thicht Nhat Hahn has a lovely rose analogy for interbeing that helps with expansion of the mind's typical constraints and limitations. He discusses how the rose in all its beauty is only in process of becoming compost, and the compost in all its seeming decay is only in process of nuturing the rose seeds and becoming the rose. The rose is in its "flower state" for a momentary period, however, during that time, it is very much what it is. It is just that it is never separate from the other aspects of this existence. This is a simple example from the natural world and its connection to the eternal One or All, and yet the same analogies can be made within any other aspect of existence.

If you are speaking of what is from within heart/soul, from that perspective of consciousness, then you are grounded within yourself, and your interpretation of your experience has a connection to the eternal moment. This connection is beyond mind and is unchanged by any of the mind's chatter, habits, or repetitive stories. And then it matters not what labels are used. For yes, as you Robbie & others have said, they are only labels, but they do not have to change or detract from the experience, from the moment itself. Unless, as pointers, they serve to focus your awareness upon the moment.

As WS/James said, it is what it is now, and your perception of that is what defines your reality. The closer your live from your centre, the more aligned your mind's eye will be with your soul's eye. Where our normal 5 (or 6 ) senses are surrounded by another "sense", our soul's knowing. And there is an acceptance by mind that mind does not define our reality but has instead begun instead to just translate the knowing of our soul. This acceptance often is preceded by a time of mental stress and anguish, of a deep existential experience of death and dying...the dying of the mind's rule to soul's ascendance. Sorry for not having a more precise label for all this Dazzer -- pls pardon

Peace & blessings,
Amanda

[7luminaries]

Hey Daz I just clipped this from the Quantum Consciousness link under the science & spirituality thread. Scientists misuse the term 'mind' when they mean consciousness. True consciousness is only received or transmitted or interpreted by the individual mind, but I think we all agree on that...

Scientists also tend to use the term consciousness very broadly, but this is ok, and which I actually like, because in fact all aspects of consciousness are interrelated...but you can see it can mean God/Oneness consciousness, it can mean the individual or the collective consciousness, and it can mean the intersection between the immaterial and the eternal (spirit) and the material and the momentary, which many might call also call the soul, or the seat of the soul. IMO substituting soul or spirit sometimes has a more meaningful impact when discussing our own experiences and our own awareness.

Anyway I thought that in your response to me, you were touching on some of these aspects...and it was nice to see them laid out in some sort of cohesive summary below.

The American physicist Nick Herbert has been even more specific on the similarities between Quantum Theory and consciousness. Herbert thinks that consciousness is a pervasive process in nature.

• Mind is as fundamental a component of the universe as elementary particles and forces.
• Mind can be detected by three features of quantum theory:

  • randomness,
  • thinglessness (objects acquire attributes only once they are observed) and
  • interconnectedness (John Bell's discovery that once two particles have interacted they remain connected).

• Herbert thinks that these three features of inert matter can account for three basic features of mind:

  • free will,
  • essential ambiguity, and
  • deep psychic connectedness.

• Scientists may be vastly underestimating the quantity of consciousness in the universe.

Peace & blessings,
Amanda

[Gem]

People see things differently but share the same names.