Suffering

[Xan]

Thanks, Nameless.

Love, Light, Life.


Xan

Greetings..

The 'mind-body' is as much the 'true-self' as the one conceived in that 'mind'.. people speak of the 'true self', and that 'true self' is only known in the mind and by the mind, it is not separate from the mind..

This existence, this physical presence that is 'you' (i use 'you' generically, please don't assume i speaking for 'you' specifically), this is what is 'here now'.. this physical presence exists wholly and independently 'now', it requires no additional input from another version of itself, no higher self, no true self.. those concepts exist wholly within the mind's capacity for inventing solutions where none are apparent, i.e.: legends, myths, deities, etc..

Suffering occurs, it is a function of Life, of physical presence.. it is a human trait to imagine solutions for situations they believe to be beyond their control.. which, is counter productive when there are very real solutions to the very real sufferings.. the 'real' spiritual solution to suffering is when the indomitable human spirit, the spirit of many working together for a common solution, that "one for all and all for one" spirit begins to eradicate real suffering..

It is counterproductive to suggest that real physical and spiritual suffering is anything other than a challenge to be overcome.. it is not a 'lesson', the lesson is in the overcoming which strengthens the human spirit.. it is not 'karma', not punishment for past deeds, suffering is a natural function of the intricacies of energetic forms manifested as physical presence, and.. we (generic again) are perfectly capable of adjusting the energetic relationships of our existence to alleviate the real suffering of the human condition.. we/us/Life (generic references) affect and effect the evolution of the human experience for the successive manifestations of that human experiences, and.. 'that' is what we ARE, 'that' is 'spirituality'..

The unique and independently functioning energetically physical versions of the whole that we are, are the experiential explorers of our own potential, of the potential of the Whole.. we are energy and stardust, evolved and involved in the exploration of our own existence, in the existence of all that is.. suffering is a function of the evolution of perfection, a function that we will change through actual involvement, or.. a function that will forever trap us in this phase of evolution..

We will, as humanity has for thousands of years, imagine a solution, or.. we will unite in the 'spirit' of humanity and eradicate the obstacle of suffering.. we can't pretend it away, it's still here, it requires that we set aside the differing 'beliefs' and traditions, that we unite in a common understanding.. it requires that we no longer tolerate excuses for the existence of suffering, or excuses for why we don't take affirmative action to remove this obstacle to the evolution of the human experience.. we (still generic of course) can no longer tolerate oppression, abuse, and corruption, neither can we tolerate the governments and organizations/corporations that manipulate the human experience with these tools of madness..

Suffering is a curable affliction, and we/us/Life are the cure, but.. as long as we accept excuses like 'suffering is a lesson', or suffering doesn't happen to the 'true self', suffering will remain the obstacle it has been for thousands of years.. yes, we are energy manifested as physical versions of the Whole, and yes, we will exist beyond this physical experience, but.. so too, will this physical experience continue, with other versions of the Whole exploring our collective and individual potentials.. will we leave the obstacles like suffering and oppression for others, or.. we will define 'spirituality' as the unifying cause to evolve past disparate beliefs and advance the human experience into a unifying awareness of its amazing and limitless potential..

This message has been brought to you as my personal understanding, as the way i intend to live my Life.. it is not an attempt to 'tell' you how to live yours.. it is that which, for me, is consistent with the Life i experience and live..

Be well..

[IsleWalker]

TzuJanLi--

Your distinction between "lesson" and your own words "the lesson is in the overcoming which strengthens the human spirit". It is a distinction without a difference, IMO. A lesson is something which strengthens the spirit. I choose to use that word--you don't. It's semantics.

Lora

Greetings..

Originally Posted by IsleWalker

TzuJanLi--

Your distinction between "lesson" and your own words "the lesson is in the overcoming which strengthens the human spirit". It is a distinction without a difference, IMO. A lesson is something which strengthens the spirit. I choose to use that word--you don't. It's semantics.

Lora

Hi Lora: I see it differently.. you say the suffering is the lesson, implying an intention from a separate entity, a 'teacher'.. i see suffering as a natural function of evolution, to be overcome or to be the obstacle, the 'lesson' is self-taught, no 'teacher', no manipulator.. just Life defining itself..

Be well..

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Xan

As I see it, we suffer because we have forgotten who we really are. By identifying ourselves with our bodies, minds and life stories there's no real foundation for our existence so vulnerability and fear its many forms of suffering arise.

I know this because in rediscovering our universal true nature my past suffering has gradually disappeared.

Your true self has no fear, no loss, no pain and no suffering but is whole and contented always, no matter what happens in the surface world. But find out for yourself within your own being.


Xan

Hi Xan ,

I generally agree with your thoughts here ..

Has one a choice to forget or remember their true nature .

If one say's enough is enough I choose not to suffer anymore and I want to know my true nature _ does the suffering then cease to be .

Can an individual choose to know their true nature and still not have the realization of such .

x daz x

[IsleWalker]

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..

Hi Lora: I see it differently.. you say the suffering is the lesson, implying an intention from a separate entity, a 'teacher'.. i see suffering as a natural function of evolution, to be overcome or to be the obstacle, the 'lesson' is self-taught, no 'teacher', no manipulator.. just Life defining itself..

Be well..

No, Tzu, I did not say suffering is the lesson. On the contrary, as you stated early, the "lesson" is whatever can lead to the evolution of the soul.

A "lesson" does not require a "teacher" --or, if you like, the teacher is you.

Again, we're saying the same thing in my eyes.

Lora

Greetings..

Originally Posted by IsleWalker

No, Tzu, I did not say suffering is the lesson. On the contrary, as you stated early, the "lesson" is whatever can lead to the evolution of the soul.

A "lesson" does not require a "teacher" --or, if you like, the teacher is you.

Again, we're saying the same thing in my eyes.

Lora

Hi Lora: Then yes, depending on your understandings of 'soul', we may be saying the same thing..

Be well..

[Xan]

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hi Xan ,

I generally agree with your thoughts here ..

Has one a choice to forget or remember their true nature .

If one say's enough is enough I choose not to suffer anymore and I want to know my true nature _ does the suffering then cease to be .

Can an individual choose to know their true nature and still not have the realization of such .

x daz x

Hi daz...

The forgetting part is fait accompli and seems to have happened by getting overly involved with the thoughts, emotions, sensations and survival needs of the body-mind.

Obviously it's hardly a matter of simply choosing to remember our true nature, then voila! ... suffering ends.

However, setting one's intention or feeling the longing to discover who they really are in essence makes a great difference. How that comes about is variable.

There does come a point when we can choose where we direct our attention... into the mind of conflict and suffering or into our inner being... once we recognize the difference.

One teacher of mine said, "No one would search for the Truth without suffering." So it does serve that purpose... like the burning sensation of holding one's hand in a fire.


Xan

[sound]

Wonderful post/message (#12) Tzu ... lots of little jewels in there for the taking ... very inspiring ... very nice to see you back in town too

[IsleWalker]

Again, suffering is not mandatory! Many are learning "lessons" (sorry Tzu) without suffering. Those are our choices, again. (And before you say it--no, they may not be consciously made.)

Lora