Soulmates, TF, and LVE's: Man-made?

Iseke thank u! I couldn't have said it better! If I werent going through this I would have some doubts too.

Originally Posted by IntenseRecall

How will you feel if when you die, you find out your deceased husband was actually your twin but helped you find a suitable mate while in the afterlife? What if it's because of our husband, who knew you better because of the years he spent with you, that he was able to keep an eye out on someone for you and helped you two meet, and then instigated "mystical things" to help you think magical stuff was happening to help you think you have something magical such as a twin flame because he knew it's what would make you happy?

What are you going to die after both you, and you're current mate die... and you find out neither of them are your twin because they don't exist... who will you choose? If making such choices matter anymore in that dimension. Are you going to go back to your husband of 28 years, or stay with your current partner?

I used to see it this way, that there was one partner we could be with and we had to choose one over the other. But then as I started looking into my past life history I realized that we have many many relationships over the years and we play many many roles. We carry the energy from lifetimes where our sister was our husband and our souls remember that relationship even when our minds don't. So it's kind of weird for me to think about being monogamous on the other side with a soul I had a romantic relationship with on this side because we were romantic on this side. Well, we were a lot of things on this side.

As for twin souls, the "ultimate romantic relationship" aka "soul spouse," I can see how this seems troubling when you hold the first premise to be true. What happens to your current partner if you just have some TF out there to replace him/her with later? Well...

Your spouse is your TF's spouse too, in a sense. The soul relationship you share with other souls, your TF shares too, because you are connected on an intrinsic level. You don't have to choose between your partner and your twin on a soul level. That's like having to choose between your left arm or your husband.

But, that's metaphysically speaking. If we're talking Earth relationships, and both the person you believe is your twin and your current partner are alive...you make that choice of who you would like to be with on an earth level. So we're really talking about two different things here. It seems to me you are taking physical situations and extrapolating from them what goes on on a soul level beyond this plane. It's just not the same situation, I believe.

To address your first concern: how do we know our entire lives aren't being fabricated while our brains are in vats, and some higher being wants us to believe in the fiction they are creating for us? That's when we learn to discern what is right and true for us, instead of worrying about all the ways we could be being manipulated by something that wants us to believe a certain way or wants to control our thoughts.

[GreenRiver]

I dont really know how to respond to this. But to sum it all up, you are applying VERY earthly terms to something that is sacred and spiritual. The two cannot be compared. Theyre not even in the same ballpark.

[smARTistic girl]

I think it's cute that you label people who have a TS as cute. I have found the experience to be anything but...

Has everyone neglected to read the part where my dreams have been trying to indicate to me that my TF is in my dreams and possibly has been interacting with me while in spirit, during my waking reality?

But the dreams, coincidently stopped when I made the choice not to believe in TF's anymore? And they were precognitive dreams, too.



Why is it that if TF's exist, that there is only this one relationship that's supposed to be the most sacred and spiritual? I would think that it would be more important to have this relationship with self, or with God. And what if you want to have this most sacred and spiritual relationship with someone else? But you can't because you've been created a certain way and there's nothing you can do about how you were created because it's already happened.

If your TF is essentially you, then why would they ever be considered someone else? You are yourself, someone else is themself. If they are capable of having their own thoughts and will, seperate from yours, they are their own individual. And you are your own.

It's like, what I could take from my dreams, it's like I could sit here and think my TF is with me in spirit hanging out sometimes. And I could pretend to have a conversation with him via telepathy. Surely since he's my TF we'd be able to do this since he's in spirit and would surely have the "handbook" down on how to communicate effectively. I mean he's in that other dimension so he should know more things than I do. If TF humans can talk via telepathy then surely anything a human and spirit TF couple could do would be much more powerful, right? But essentially, it would be me having a conversation with myself like a crazy person. Because what on Earth is the point of having a person hang out with me in spirit in the first place? And then I would have to be careful not to develop some sort of multiple personality disorder. Thinking, "oh I smiled like this because he was smiling" or "I laughed like this because he just did". Those last things don't even have to apply to a TF I don't think, I suppose if it's possible, any spirit could do this if that permission is granted. But essentially, if it was my TF, then it would really be me, talking to an imaginary character of my male side. That's what it seems like to me.

It's really difficult to explain everything without sitting here and going down one by one all of the dreams I've had regarding this. I did my best trying to explain some of my experiences, I think they're being overlooked. But I guess it doesn't matter really.

If my TF is an individual, then my spouses are my spouses. And his spouses are his spouses. Only if my TF was actually me, would it apply that we share anything.

It's like, I've thought about, if TF's exist... maybe we don't really ever incarnate as the opposite sex but rather our TF incarnates and we stay behind and help guide them. But not living in their head, but as a whole, complete individual person in the spirit realm. But in the sense that we truly are individuals, and TF's... then that would mean we are like bound twins forever, and I guess it's a personal choice if you want to be romantic or not with this person.

As far as your sister being your husband in your past life. I don't really think we do this to ourselves. If we're not brainwashed zombies, and I would still have my opinions in tact upon death... and found out someone's sibling was their husband in a past life... I would say no matter how many lives went by... that's gross. I can only pray that I don't have these types of attachments. But I also feel that because I feel so strongly about this, that I don't. That I don't have to worry about my family being a lover in another life. I don't think I can look at my husband and go, "I hope you're my sibling in the next life." Ew. I'm not trying to personally attack you, this is just my overall general opinion when it comes to past lives and family attachments. I feel your mother will always be your mother. Maybe you might trade places and play their mother.. but I think it would cross boundaries to go, "hey mom, wanna play my boyfriend next life?"... ew. And yes, I think if you call someone mom in life, you might still call them mom in the afterlife. And you might have many moms that you still call mom.

I also think on some level, if you really loved the people you had a lifetime with, why would you go and reincarnate to forget all about them? What if you don't get to remember via some sort "auto thought process" their connections to you and you actually have to literally read about it, or have them tell you stories about it?

It's like, if someone finds someone and loves them so much, I think after they both die... it would be a slap in the face to one of them to go, "Alright, I wanna reincarnate, peace out!" Like, if you really and truly find someone that you love, you're going to want to spend as much as your existence with them as you can, until you outgrow each other... which less face, is inevitable. I mean a mother will always be your mother, sure you can outgrow them but they'll always have that attachment (assuming you bonded with your mother). But a boyfriend is just a boyfriend. A husband just a husband. Sure you'll have that moment in time in your history with them, but you can't always expect to love them in the way that you always want to be around them.

As far as polygomy in the afterlife. I think you do there what you do here. If you have a husband and still sleep with your ex's... that's probably what you'll do in the afterlife if they're okay with it. Although in this life, your ex's or husband probably don't know about this and things might be harder to conceal in the afterlife. That's also assuming we lie and try to hide things in the afterlife. If you can play poker in the afterlife, then you can lie. If you can do things you enjoy in the afterlife and you enjoy poker, I would imagine you can play poker, but you have to be able to lie for that.

Back to TF's... if TF's are equivelant to your left arm, I don't think they are ever seperate from you ever and are in fact, just you're opposite side. If you're feminine, they are your masculine side, and vice versa. Or something like that.

To say that a TF is an individual, is to say they are a whole person unto themselves. Otherwise, they are you talking to yourself. And if they are you, then they can't be someone else in another body. If someone is in another body, they are not you, they are them.

People are shaped and molded by their experiences in life. I have yet to come across anyone in life that developed some random bizarre out of the blue. Sure, some people think their kids have developed something like this, but there's something I know they don't. I remember being a kid, I remember being a toddler, I remember everything from then on up. I remember that I've been exposed to things they have no idea about that helped shaped my personality. Things that only occurred due to my environment and surroundings and experiences. That's what people are. So when someone meets someone they are compatible with, they are just lucky enough to have met someone that went through the experiences in the life they had, in order to be at that level.

I know I flip flop a lot but getting to the core of what a TF is and soulmates is tricky. Ever notice that there is no old text on TF's? Anything ever about TF's on the internet is on some sort of new agey website? Indians never talked about this either, as far as I can tell.

Intense I think its pretty great that your looking for answers. Although u have to understand that u cannot take this information in with the ego mind, thus u will never understand the concepts that u are looking for answers. You do flip flop back and forth because u think too much about it in earthly terms. We are all one from the source, the universe, God if u will. So in spirit, we love each other equally because we are all a part of one. Therefore on earth our relationships are all out of learning and growing, evolving. So it is not looked at as my sister was my father or husband in another life.

Originally Posted by IntenseRecall

Has everyone neglected to read the part where my dreams have been trying to indicate to me that my TF is in my dreams and possibly has been interacting with me while in spirit, during my waking reality?

But the dreams, coincidently stopped when I made the choice not to believe in TF's anymore? And they were precognitive dreams, too.

To be fair...it was quite a long post. Maybe it'd be a bit more helpful to separate thoughts into smaller chunks or separate posts or something?

That said, I remember reading you were describing an experience that was both enjoyable in its own way and concerning but equally real. And you're saying that you've managed to change your mind about what was actually going on, and thus disproved for yourself it was actually a TF experience?

If that is so, how do you expect that to apply to everyone else's situations? It's not really fair to say that because something wasn't right for you, it must be wrong for everyone else too. Because we've actually had different kinds of experiences from each other!

Why is it that if TF's exist, that there is only this one relationship that's supposed to be the most sacred and spiritual? I would think that it would be more important to have this relationship with self, or with God. And what if you want to have this most sacred and spiritual relationship with someone else? But you can't because you've been created a certain way and there's nothing you can do about how you were created because it's already happened.

If your TF is essentially you, then why would they ever be considered someone else? You are yourself, someone else is themself. If they are capable of having their own thoughts and will, seperate from yours, they are their own individual. And you are your own.

It's like, what I could take from my dreams, it's like I could sit here and think my TF is with me in spirit hanging out sometimes. And I could pretend to have a conversation with him via telepathy. Surely since he's my TF we'd be able to do this since he's in spirit and would surely have the "handbook" down on how to communicate effectively. I mean he's in that other dimension so he should know more things than I do. If TF humans can talk via telepathy then surely anything a human and spirit TF couple could do would be much more powerful, right? But essentially, it would be me having a conversation with myself like a crazy person. Because what on Earth is the point of having a person hang out with me in spirit in the first place? And then I would have to be careful not to develop some sort of multiple personality disorder. Thinking, "oh I smiled like this because he was smiling" or "I laughed like this because he just did". Those last things don't even have to apply to a TF I don't think, I suppose if it's possible, any spirit could do this if that permission is granted. But essentially, if it was my TF, then it would really be me, talking to an imaginary character of my male side. That's what it seems like to me.

It's really difficult to explain everything without sitting here and going down one by one all of the dreams I've had regarding this. I did my best trying to explain some of my experiences, I think they're being overlooked. But I guess it doesn't matter really.

If my TF is an individual, then my spouses are my spouses. And his spouses are his spouses. Only if my TF was actually me, would it apply that we share anything.

It's like, I've thought about, if TF's exist... maybe we don't really ever incarnate as the opposite sex but rather our TF incarnates and we stay behind and help guide them. But not living in their head, but as a whole, complete individual person in the spirit realm. But in the sense that we truly are individuals, and TF's... then that would mean we are like bound twins forever, and I guess it's a personal choice if you want to be romantic or not with this person.

...

Back to TF's... if TF's are equivelant to your left arm, I don't think they are ever seperate from you ever and are in fact, just you're opposite side. If you're feminine, they are your masculine side, and vice versa. Or something like that.

To say that a TF is an individual, is to say they are a whole person unto themselves. Otherwise, they are you talking to yourself. And if they are you, then they can't be someone else in another body. If someone is in another body, they are not you, they are them.

I think I'm getting a little overwhelmed by all the points you are trying to make here. I feel like I can't quite articulate why I don't see it that way because it's like you are bringing up so many different potential ideas here at once that I'm not really sure which ones you are advocating for. I think you are saying that TFs are just constructs in our head, as in, we see traits we believe identify someone as our TF because we want to believe it? And you take issue with this weird duality of "TFs are their own complete, whole souls" and "twin souls are one soul split into two" which written texts oddly seem to claim are BOTH true? And how can we be ONE soul split into two if we are supposed to be TWO complete, separate individuals?

I hate to say this, but I'm really confused. It's not because I'm not trying to take in what you are saying or that I don't care about the points you're trying to make. I'm just not sure which parts you're trying to argue, because I think you're sort of bringing every conflicting idea about twin souls out there up at once. But the thing is, I don't believe everything about twin souls simultaneously, so I'm not quite sure what we're debating about here, exactly.

As far as your sister being your husband in your past life. I don't really think we do this to ourselves. If we're not brainwashed zombies, and I would still have my opinions in tact upon death... and found out someone's sibling was their husband in a past life... I would say no matter how many lives went by... that's gross. I can only pray that I don't have these types of attachments. But I also feel that because I feel so strongly about this, that I don't. That I don't have to worry about my family being a lover in another life. I don't think I can look at my husband and go, "I hope you're my sibling in the next life." Ew. I'm not trying to personally attack you, this is just my overall general opinion when it comes to past lives and family attachments. I feel your mother will always be your mother. Maybe you might trade places and play their mother.. but I think it would cross boundaries to go, "hey mom, wanna play my boyfriend next life?"... ew. And yes, I think if you call someone mom in life, you might still call them mom in the afterlife. And you might have many moms that you still call mom.

I don't see it that way. Earthly relationships depend on context, and I believe the context can change each time. If you think it's "gross" to have a certain kind of relationship with a soul and then have another type of relationship with them in another life, well, your soul might not think that from a higher perspective.

That sounds kind of uncomfortable to say that I believe the soul might make choices that to us sound completely weird and not what we'd enjoy from our current perspective. But our current perspective is just that, our current perspective, and it does not stay the same at all times. Hence why I don't believe the contexts we create with souls here are the same context for each life.

I know I flip flop a lot but getting to the core of what a TF is and soulmates is tricky. Ever notice that there is no old text on TF's? Anything ever about TF's on the internet is on some sort of new agey website? Indians never talked about this either, as far as I can tell.

That's...not really true, although the terms may be different. The concept though has been around for quite awhile.

Well, I understand that something created everything. Sure God/Source/Universe. We are all of this. But I don't necessarily agree that we automatically love all of it. I mean sure, we may appreciate all of it... but it's like.. if I keep my personality after I die, and I hope I will.. otherwise that signifies to me that we're some sort of brainwashed zombie on prozac or something... then I'm still going to have my personal preferences. Which means people who irritated me on Earth, I'm probably not going to want to hang around them in the afterlife. If that's not the case, then that means we freely mingle with Hitler as if he didn't do anything.

It's like, our bodies came from God. I don't love all of me equally. I appreciate it sure.. but I don't love it. I mean, I don't love my boogers and they are of me. I appreciate the concept of boogers, that my nose catches things to prevent me from inhaling it... or however it works.. but that still doesn't mean I love my boogers. I mean they exist sure, but that doesn't mean I love them as equally as the rest of my body. Weird example sure.

People assume that we're not the same after we die. What if we are? What if our ego is just the same? People assume our ego drops off, what if it doesn't? Sure there are some things that seem to automatically be true, we no longer need to take care of this physical body. Of course we leave this body behind, we see it all the time, it gets buried, burned, put back to Earth. And supposedly our thoughts take our energy shape to make it look and feel like we have the same body, but this one is supposedly immortal. We don't need to eat, sleep... etc. So I guess that means we don't need to exercise it, so I guess that must mean we can think it into whatever shape we want. If that's the case, isn't it ego that decides what shape we want? Isn't it ego that helps us decide whether we want to look like a big, beautiful woman or a toned, petite woman? I wonder if seeing a fat person on the other side is a rare thing. So many people view fat as bad. Wouldn't it be weird to be in a land where there were no fat people? As if everyone collectively agreed, "fat is ugly?" But we know, fat is not ugly... there are many people who pull it off well. Not necessarily the unhealthy fat, but there is such a thing as healthy fat. Where you can look at them, tell they take care of themselves, tell they're hygenic, they look polished and well put together, they're just bigger.

I kind of strayed, but there really is no proof that we don't have a portion, if not all, of our ego mind after we die.

If we're not like we are after we die, then something happened to change that. That must only mean we're on some sort of level, brainwashed. Medicated. Something. If that's the case, then that means dead people as it is, spirits... cannot relate to us living. So why in the world do people try and channel these beings if they cannot relate anymore? Off topic again.

If we are like we are now, after death, then consider my opinions, might not change after death.

I'm sure there are more realizations that we get once we die. Since we're clearly no longer on Earth and over there. I'm sure we get a different perspective of Earth and how Earth works... but that doesn't necessarily mean our personality or opinions change.

Originally Posted by Iseke

[color="DarkSlateBlue"]I think I'm getting a little overwhelmed by all the points you are trying to make here. I feel like I can't quite articulate why I don't see it that way because it's like you are bringing up so many different potential ideas here at once that I'm not really sure which ones you are advocating for. I think you are saying that TFs are just constructs in our head, as in, we see traits we believe identify someone as our TF because we want to believe it? And you take issue with this weird duality of "TFs are their own complete, whole souls" and "twin souls are one soul split into two" which written texts oddly seem to claim are BOTH true? And how can we be ONE soul split into two if we are supposed to be TWO complete, separate individuals?

That's part of the issue, if TF's are real: If they are you, how can they be their own individual person? Because if they are their own individual person, they are themselves, their own unique person. You are you, and they are them.


This whole issue was brought about for me because for the past year, I thought I had a spirit near me. These dreams tried to convey to me that this spirit was what I would call my TF at the time. I thought my TF or One True Soulmate was in the heaven dimension visiting me. I don't know if my dreams did this to me to protect me from what's really happening to me or not. But it really made me question TF's, soulmates, afterlife romances.

I've since had experiences that conveyed to me not to trust what I thought I was talking to. Which in turn made me question the validity of my dreams. Even though this person who looked like the male version of me (at least I guess, it's hard to say, it still appears he had my teeth and eyes) was sitting at my pc desk and I was sitting on his lap during a dream, and he showed me where my lost earrings were and felt like another individual... and then I looked at him and smiled so big it WOKE ME UP from the dream. I've had several dreams where it portrayed to me that I have a male spirit hanging out with me. I WOKE UP smiling just from seeing him in a dream at least three times. I'm pretty sure all of these dreams were the ones where I fell asleep and wake up an hour later. Just to go back to sleep because I intended on sleeping for several more hours.

So what I take from it, is that something tried lying to me about who they were in my dreams. That if I really did have a TF, God would've found a way to convey this in my dreams. Why the hell would God let something pretend to be my TF? If something is allowed to do this, it gives me the idea TF's aren't real. Because if they were real, why wouldn't my TF help me with this in my dreams as well? Why would something be allowed to pretend to be my TF in my dream!?

Originally Posted by IntenseRecall

How will you feel if when you die, you find out your deceased husband was actually your twin but helped you find a suitable mate while in the afterlife? What if it's because of our husband, who knew you better because of the years he spent with you, that he was able to keep an eye out on someone for you and helped you two meet, and then instigated "mystical things" to help you think magical stuff was happening to help you think you have something magical such as a twin flame because he knew it's what would make you happy?

What are you going to die after both you, and you're current mate die... and you find out neither of them are your twin because they don't exist... who will you choose? If making such choices matter anymore in that dimension. Are you going to go back to your husband of 28 years, or stay with your current partner?

There are always going to be things that happen to people that will never happen to them again. There are always going to be things that happen where one can state, 'they NEVER happened to me before'. There are always going to be things that question your sanity, regardless of who you're with.

I have no current earthly partner. I do have a twin soul though....and I had never even heard of such before I experienced what I have. And yes, I do think my husband somehow "arranged" that we meet. He did not want me to be alone....and though I have no current earthly partner....I'm certainly not alone. Ever. You see, I had a long "heart to heart" with my husband one night after he passed, telling him if he wanted me with someone he'd have to do the picking. The next day, my twin literally showed up on my doorstep. I came here to this forum only after searching for reasons for the feelings I (and my twin) were having. I don't really look upon it all as a physical, romantic relationship either, though that is how it started and yeah, it was nice, but as a spiritual relationship. Each and every time I try to "forget" it, up he pops, as recently as tonight. Asking questions and reaffirming this connection that the two of us have. I didn't go out looking for all this, it just happened. I had never even heard of such a thing. And no, I'd never describe it as "cute". Words fail in describing, I know, so I've gotten to the point where I don't even try. I don't think about it much anymore either, but I feel it instead. There are no words for those things I feel.