Is spirituality a trap?

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Greenslade...I agree with all you said, btw.

Can you tell me the short version what the beef is you have with things I said...
(I have no issue with Jung or Isness or Samadhi, I wasn't understanding exactly, I'm sorry.)

Apparently , I am more controversial then I thought!!
Someone does not feel it is wonderful that we have the freedom to do anything...ok.

I don't have a beef with anything you've said, Miss H, and my apologies if you think I have. My point was that often the traps we create for ourselves are the most constricting, and Spirituality is often a trap that we create for ourselves. It becomes a trap when we ignore certain things that, although they're not within the accepted definition of Spirituality per se would help Spiritual understandings. Spirituality becomes the trap; "I'm Spiritual so I must say these things and should not listen to rock music because it lowers my vibrations...."

In Samadhi Spirituality and beliefs are seen as part of Maya or the conditioned self and so far I haven't seen any posts on that specific subject at all, and I'm only aware of one other person having mentioned it - other than your good self. Don't mention Jung because that'll get your tail roasted, as has happened to me a few times.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

In Samadhi Spirituality and beliefs are seen as part of Maya or the conditioned self ..

YES! Beliefs...I can have another exp that shows me some huge, humbling aspect of the Creator God,
Father, Infinite Consciousness, The One...
so that is what I 'believe'...
(Btw, they all revolve around Love, ha...just deeper and more profound that that Love really is...
so my beliefs change to 'getting it more'....ie, being revealed more layers...of Reality).
So, for me, belief is pretty darn fluid!

Baseballs, trees still are not baseballs or trees to me...they look like baseballs and trees, tho.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by janielee

Nothing wrong with useful things in the world

Oh my...many finite things here are doorways...
little surprises opening us to the Divine.

A trap would be thinking that doorway was a place to stop...instead of walking through
and leaving the doorway behind...humans tend to worship the doorway...
be it a woman, written words, a teacher, a piece of land or building and so on...
from what I have seen.

[ocean breeze]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Can you tell me the short version what the beef is you have with things I said...

Disagreement isn't equivalent to having an issue or taking offence.

Apparently , I am more controversial then I thought!!

Quite the opposite. Perhaps more popular than you think.

Someone does not feel it is wonderful that we have the freedom to do anything...ok.

That's freedom at the very minimum level. Even if it were true. Its not wonderful or horrible.

You're rich, buy an island where you can build and do anything you want.....so what.

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Oh my...many finite things here are doorways...
little surprises opening us to the Divine.

A trap would be thinking that doorway was a place to stop...instead of walking through
and leaving the doorway behind

Yes and saying thanks very much, pointing others to the doorway is cool too

[zorkchop]

It makes little difference whether one believes “spirituality” to be a trap . . . or not. Technically speaking . . . we ALL . . . are Spirit. EVERY-thing . . . is of Spirit. The trap is . . . our understanding of it. Mentally speaking . . . that could be due to our “definition” of it. Beyond that . . . it’s another ballgame altogether.

Let’s toss around some generics . . .

The human state of consciousness tends to believe that there are two “levels” in life . . . the physical . . . and everything else . . . often termed spiritual. So . . . a very popular perspective is that all of life is either physical . . . or spiritual.

Now let’s say that “above” or “beyond” the physical realms is the invisible . . . that which the human senses cannot see . . . but do exist. Emotions . . . are invisible . . . but we can certainly see the effects as we display them in the physical and mental realms. The mental aspects . . . thought . . . is invisible . . . but we see them displayed in our beliefs . . . which we hold . . . and apparently others hold as to their choices.

The physical, emotional, and mental aspects of these worlds can be accepted as being the psychic worlds . . . as the psychic worlds are couched in both the negative and the positive . . . so to speak. It is the “land” of opposites. Examples are endless. High / low . . . good / bad . . . hot / cold . . . male / female . . . right / wrong . . . and on and on it goes.

Getting “above” or “beyond” the mind . . . is the huge game of LIFE. Mind has bee in control of each and every individual . . . here and elsewhere . . . for eons. Mind . . . being a “creature” of habit . . . does NOT like to give up control . . . therefore it will incessantly fight any change . . . and give even greater battle to said loss of “control.”

Beneath all of this is the discovery . . . that mind is NOT Soul . . . and Soul is NOT mind.

And the battle between the two . . . between the individual Soul and the mental concepts / beliefs / attitudes ( thought plus emotion ) / perspectives / viewpoints / etc. . . . to sort it all out and come to terms with all of this . . . is the so-called Path . . . or the Game of LIFE . . . or just . . . what is going on around each of us whether we understand or accept it or not.

Please understand . . . that there are different terms or words for each of these facets. I’m trying to stay generic here. Bear with me.

All of this is somewhat and loosely designed like our educational system. Pre-school can be viewed as being basic survival. To begin to sort it all out via morals /values / ethics / etc. . . . begins a huge education in discernment.

To finally work ones way above the mind and stand again in the True Home of Soul . . . by whatever name one wishes to use for that . . . takes one OUT of the psychic realms . . . the positive and the negative . . . and into the Pure God Worlds . . . again a generic word just for the ease of communication. In actuality . . . if one wishes to make such a distinction . . . and eventually . . . it WILL be made . . . it is at this “upper” level that is the truly “Spiritual” . . . where below this is the “Psychic” . . . and yes . . . I suppose . . . on down into the physical.

Yes . . . there is free will. Yes . . . it is NOT easy to hold to free will because the mind will demand that each individual adhere to its learned and designed habits / patterns / beliefs. As each individual Soul discovers that . . . “Hey . . . I’m not the mind” . . . and mid discovers . . . “Hey . . . somethings trying to wrestle control from me as mind” . . . this battle is so ominous, incessant, and entrapping . . . that it is truly staggering.

I have said WaY too much here. Mind will cartwheel at some of these claims. Without a doubt . . . ALL of us are expert at such cartwheels.

Feel free to accept . . . partially accept . . . reject . . . dismiss some . . . anything and everything I’ve offered here. I’m not here to start battles . . . especially with the endless mental perspectives on all of this.

On we go.

If freedom is expanding with Source. (The One Great Divine Love Mystery Spirit)

Then anything that holds us back is a trap.

Originally Posted by zorkchop

It makes little difference whether one believes “spirituality” to be a trap . . . or not. Technically speaking . . . we ALL . . . are Spirit. EVERY-thing . . . is of Spirit. The trap is . . . our understanding of it. Mentally speaking . . . that could be due to our “definition” of it. Beyond that . . . it’s another ballgame altogether.

Let’s toss around some generics . . .

The human state of consciousness tends to believe that there are two “levels” in life . . . the physical . . . and everything else . . . often termed spiritual. So . . . a very popular perspective is that all of life is either physical . . . or spiritual.

Now let’s say that “above” or “beyond” the physical realms is the invisible . . . that which the human senses cannot see . . . but do exist. Emotions . . . are invisible . . . but we can certainly see the effects as we display them in the physical and mental realms. The mental aspects . . . thought . . . is invisible . . . but we see them displayed in our beliefs . . . which we hold . . . and apparently others hold as to their choices.

The physical, emotional, and mental aspects of these worlds can be accepted as being the psychic worlds . . . as the psychic worlds are couched in both the negative and the positive . . . so to speak. It is the “land” of opposites. Examples are endless. High / low . . . good / bad . . . hot / cold . . . male / female . . . right / wrong . . . and on and on it goes.

Getting “above” or “beyond” the mind . . . is the huge game of LIFE. Mind has bee in control of each and every individual . . . here and elsewhere . . . for eons. Mind . . . being a “creature” of habit . . . does NOT like to give up control . . . therefore it will incessantly fight any change . . . and give even greater battle to said loss of “control.”

Beneath all of this is the discovery . . . that mind is NOT Soul . . . and Soul is NOT mind.

And the battle between the two . . . between the individual Soul and the mental concepts / beliefs / attitudes ( thought plus emotion ) / perspectives / viewpoints / etc. . . . to sort it all out and come to terms with all of this . . . is the so-called Path . . . or the Game of LIFE . . . or just . . . what is going on around each of us whether we understand or accept it or not.

Please understand . . . that there are different terms or words for each of these facets. I’m trying to stay generic here. Bear with me.

All of this is somewhat and loosely designed like our educational system. Pre-school can be viewed as being basic survival. To begin to sort it all out via morals /values / ethics / etc. . . . begins a huge education in discernment.

To finally work ones way above the mind and stand again in the True Home of Soul . . . by whatever name one wishes to use for that . . . takes one OUT of the psychic realms . . . the positive and the negative . . . and into the Pure God Worlds . . . again a generic word just for the ease of communication. In actuality . . . if one wishes to make such a distinction . . . and eventually . . . it WILL be made . . . it is at this “upper” level that is the truly “Spiritual” . . . where below this is the “Psychic” . . . and yes . . . I suppose . . . on down into the physical.

Yes . . . there is free will. Yes . . . it is NOT easy to hold to free will because the mind will demand that each individual adhere to its learned and designed habits / patterns / beliefs. As each individual Soul discovers that . . . “Hey . . . I’m not the mind” . . . and mid discovers . . . “Hey . . . somethings trying to wrestle control from me as mind” . . . this battle is so ominous, incessant, and entrapping . . . that it is truly staggering.

I have said WaY too much here. Mind will cartwheel at some of these claims. Without a doubt . . . ALL of us are expert at such cartwheels.

Feel free to accept . . . partially accept . . . reject . . . dismiss some . . . anything and everything I’ve offered here. I’m not here to start battles . . . especially with the endless mental perspectives on all of this.

On we go.

Well said.

[zorkchop]

ImthatIm . . .

One can use any words that they personally choose to help in explaining the world about them . . . physical or otherwise. I would have to agree . . . there are many traps laid . . . and they DO bind us . . . but I tend to look at each issue as a “limitation.” One can learn 1+1=2 in pre-school or in the first grade . . . and that holds just fine until we want to learn subtraction and such. It is then we have to move beyond it or we do not learn.

It’s the same with the learning about LIFE. Our “beliefs and viewpoints” have held true for each of us for a long, long time . . . and we revise and tweak them as we see fit. It is when we form a mental pattern that we will not let go of . . . that will simply continue to limit us. If it is to be considered a trap . . . then it is one we have willingly accepted and probably used for a while with success.

But if we will not let go of it . . . then yes . . . one could consider that limitation to now be a trap.

Few people know . . . that mind will do ANY-thing to maintain its control of and within the individual. It goes way beyond that “ego” . . . so to speak. So the games, traps, limitations, and tweaks are endlessly juggled to keep the individual off-balance . . . and even mind itself is VERY capable of continuing this for a long, long time . . . and I’m talking . . . lifetimes. LOTS of them.

Many people are more than willing to give up their limitations and traps . . . but do not know “where to go” beyond that. This is a major bottleneck on the overall Path. Many people would be more than willing to give up the traps and such . . . but do not know how to go about it . . . let alone “where to go” beyond it. Our cultures and teachings do not really assist anyone in this. It is no wonder that “the Path” takes so long to walk.

I wish you well on your walk.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by ocean breeze

That's freedom at the very minimum level.

Even if it were true. Its not wonderful or horrible.

That was a good one...a very good non-dualistic perspective!