Are We All Conning Ourselves...

[metal68]

Originally Posted by Volaju

As Mark Twain said.

"Fame is but a vapor, the only true certainty for humanity is oblivion."

Think on that one ...

Not a believer then??

[Volaju]

Nope. I can't rely in faiths that manifest themselves through spiritual sciences and thoeries. In the end they are but shadow of doubt, a certainty that has no reason or backbone.

I am probably a huge pessimist. But I simply cannot accept others truths without seeing them with my own eyes.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by metal68

I thought id bump this one back, particularly with Necromancer's posts and fears that the spirit enitities are really just extraterrestrial LIVING beings that we are mistaking for the dead and/or being deceived??

Since then, I have learned that it is all based upon our perspectives and perceptions. They could be ghosts lying about being ETs or ETs lying about being ghosts...there's still no actual confirmation of what I am talking to really when I am talking to those discarnates, so I am back to square 1, before even speaking to them.

I do believe in God though (passionately), so I am just focusing fully on that one now and if there is an afterlife, cool. If there's not, I'm not going to know anyway, am I? win/win.

[AnotherBob]

If we really inspect our beliefs, we will come to recognize that they are nothing but non-binding modifications of consciousness. Then, rather than wasting our time pondering about the future, we can more productively occupy ourselves by inquiring into our true nature. That is: what are we, prior to any belief or concept? What is the source of this consciousness?

In order to do this, we cannot rely on thought, but need to go directly to the source of thought itself. This requires some perseverance, since we are typically addicted to our thoughts, and take them to represent who and what we are. If we are earnest, we may notice a space between this thought and the next. It is a silence, a stillness, which we very seldom explore. Discovering the space between thoughts, we can rest there more and more.

At first, it seems nearly impossible, but with practice and sincerity, we may discover that we can do it. It is in that "space" where the revelation comes. It does not come as a result of thinking, since it is prior to thought. It is there that the questions dissolve. Whether or not we live on after death is moot. It doesn't matter, since we have discovered our true nature, which is beyond birth and death. It is a simple knowingness, an awake awareness, that is so fundamental that it is invariably overlooked. It is not something new to be acquired, some special state. It is the basis for all states, but is not a state itself. There is really nothing that can compare, since it is beyond description, but it is present in each of us, regardless of our beliefs and fantasies. Once directly recognized, we no longer need concern ourselves with what came before, or what comes after.

Just so, walking, sitting, standing, lying down, return again and again to the space between thoughts, and let go of all concerns there, let it all go, all the striving, all the wanting of things to be other than they are, all the sense of rejection and victimization, all the ambition to self-improve and triumph. Find out what remains, when all else is surrendered. It is worth the effort.

[Shivani Devi]

There's basically only one thought I have now...only one wholly pre-occupying 'modification of consciousness' and that one must go with me to my grave. I'm not becoming enlightened by choice.

[GlowWorm]

Originally Posted by metal68

ghosts; still not convincing evidence, not ONE clear photo

There's actually been a few and videos as well. Bolton pub in the UK has a pretty nifty CCTV video.

Originally Posted by metal68

NDEs; my own sister had one but they could be purely a mental thing. Same with OBEs and Astral Projection, all brain created.

My father had an OBE when he was 16. He floated above his body, above the bookcase, and happened to see a number of objects that had gotten "lost" [balls, hat, etc.] that he couldn't possibly have seen while standing on his own two feet.

I have experienced more than a few NDEs and OBEs and none of them stick with the norm. The norm is probably just mental constructs because people like to repeat what others say - cursed with limited originality thy name is man.

Originally Posted by metal68

Mediumship; full of frauds and charlatans. Even then subconscious cold readings, even super psi cant be ruled out

That I won't deny. For every 200-300 frauds there maybe one legit person. It is after all the easiest thing to fake & make quick cash with.

Originally Posted by metal68

Past Life Regression; sounds convincing but is it? Can people lie under hypnosis? Plus if you go into a regression session, you are expecting one anyway and who knows how far the subconscious mind goes in creating one already?

Past life regression, particularly with a "helper" such as a psychic, is indeed oftentimes just a mirror of whatever the psychic tells you. Psychic coaches you into believing you were nobility then suddenly you were King Louise of France.

However, things known as karmic dreams & memories have no outside influence. They are not lucid dreams, you can't control them. Unexplained phobias. Unexplained scars, birthmarks, etc. Unexplained behaviors.

I personally have experienced many karmic dreams involving a prior life in 1600s [I have NEVER had regression treatments paid for or CD based, these come as unchanging dreams that can be recalled for days afterwards] Europe where I know things that if you googled about you'd have to be very specific [if you can find some things]. Scents, smells, tastes. There's a flower, not exactly the most appealing of looks, that'll draw my focus more effectively than honey will bees. Or feel something so intense one can still taste the bitterness of a too ripe melon on the tongue even when awake. I also have a scar, along the ribs, which some would say is a birthmark. It's a scar. I've never been wounded there nor had any surgery in my life but there's still that 3 inch long oversized "scratch" there. Jagged.

Originally Posted by metal68

After Death Communications; again its all subjective, I just don't buy the idea of feathers from the other side.

Likely frauds again. However, I know someone who communicated with a person on the night of their death 6,000 kms from the person. The person didn't die until hours after this final farewell [a dream for my friend] so it'd be different but still. That friend is also very mentally sound.


Now I am not recounting that to sway you. To me I couldn't be bothered if you believed such or if you thought the great finally is to be stuck in the ground with the worms & that's "all folks". I know what I believe [and no I've never felt doubt unlike some responders] & you are entitled to yours.

But you raise some good points in the initial pages. I didn't read through everything. What when there's so many "claims" that it is near impossible to verify what is real and what isn't without personally experiencing it yourself.


However, keep in mind, we really don't know a fraction of this world regardless of how we'd like to think otherwise. The oceans, for example, we haven't even scratched the surface of. And well scientists have long since claimed we've driven more species to extinction in the Amazon than we'll ever find living and/or name from within its depths.

Did you know, for example, it was once said the giant komodo dragon [Megalania] was said to have gone extinct 50,000 years ago. Well, unfortunately, for such beliefs they've found bones in the Outback that are just 300 years old. There's also the fact a number of aboriginal legends, and also legends in deep Europe, are so exact to physical features and characteristics those "legends" have a good chance of having originated only if groups of Neanderthals survived to much more modern times than perceived [as into the 1700].

As said we don't even know a fraction of this world. So to accurately explain what may lie afterwards, be it rebirth or worms, probably won't happen for another million years.

[Lynn]

Hello

Here are my thoughts and that is all they are is thoughts.

Originally Posted by metal68

This is where I'm at after 50 plus books that Ive read on it all over the past four months. Still Mr Cynical. I do wonder are we all kidding ourselves deep down. Its unbearable isn't it, losing loved ones, ageing, the thought of ceasing to exist. It wouldn't be surprising would it. Authors making money out of it, a whole growth industry. If there wasn't an afterlife we still would invent one,so how do we know we haven't??

ghosts; still not convincing evidence, not ONE clear photo

Here we are dealing with another dimension or level of time and space. Maybe its just that our technology has yet to catch up with it all.

NDEs; my own sister had one but they could be purely a mental thing.

Having had one where I did not enter the tunnel that everyone talks about or meet members of my family to greet and help me over. Mine was a "Lesson" event experience. I have talked to a few others that have had such an experience and its death but its for karmic reason and life changing reasons it comes to pass. So I do not feel for me it was a mind created event as I was very content on the path I was on, even though looking back now it was not a good path.


Same with OBEs and Astral Projection, all brain created.

Could well be if your trying to do it from meditation or to create such an event to happen. There are those like me that come into life being able to just wonder out freely and very much stay in the present time and space. I can in a sense be in two places at once. I freely Astral Travel. I have done Remote Viewing with success. Been studied for ablilites that are in what we call the Paranormal Realms.

Mediumship; full of frauds and charlatans. Even then subconscious cold readings, even super psi cant be ruled out

Sadly yes, there are many out there that prey on the unfortunate for profits and make a ton at it in some cases. I am a Medium and a Psychic but I choose the path of NOT using it for profits. When I take a payment for what I do it goes forth to charity and does some real good. I could be very rich form the Gift I was given but I choose not to follow that path.

I do not do "cold readings" I have no need to go there I use my intuition and at times cards and other divination tools as a guide. I trust in the connections I make and rarely give out names and dates in readings as those can be investigated. I more go on "seeing" those in spirit as they are or were in life. Something that for sure tells the one getting the reading I am on base.

Example I went to do a reading and I had no idea that the Mother had passed over, she had not shown me that. She wanted to know her Daughter was OK with her passing and doing OK. It hit me as a huge shock she had passed, but I was able to connect and to give things in information NO ONE knew about but her Daughter. This gives more proof than names and dates I feel.


Past Life Regression; sounds convincing but is it? Can people lie under hypnosis? Plus if you go into a regression session, you are expecting one anyway and who knows how far the subconscious mind goes in creating one already?

I do not recommend hypnosis as a place to learn of past lives. There are more ways to have a successful regression that does not put one under. I know of many of my past lives and I have visited some of the places I once lived knowing odd facts about them that are not known in written form. Knowing names of places I have never heard of, seeing places as clear as you would by taking a picture of them.

After Death Communications; again its all subjective, I just don't buy the idea of feathers from the other side.

Yes and no, I can see the dead as clearly at times as I do the living. I see feathers and some are real in the physical and others vanish when you go to touch them. From Heaven ? not sure I believe in such a place, but I do in an afterlife. Feathers at times something that brings peace to someone getting a reading, or a message for me that there is someone wanting my attentions.

I really want to believe but there isn't anything that is definitive, that cant be swayed to fit the pov of a sceptic or a believer. Feeling very disillusioned in the search. Too many conflicting things from so called firm sources, too much talk about aliens & sasquatch too! Victor zammit and others like him really mean well but then clearly get taken in by fakery like materialisations conveniently in the dark etc etc

Sadly there are "Snake Oil Salesmen" in this world and we have to just let the Karmic forces take care of them as I feel it does happen. There are a few that the saying goes "The Cream Rises to the Top" that are out there that are real and do work from their very heart and soul for others. I like to feel I am one of those that does.

If there is an afterlife, then its part of the universe, surely we can detect it, surely we would be seeing hard evidence?

Anyone else here who thinks we are kidding ourselves?

They say that the vale to the other side is getting thinner and I feel that is true. More and more we are able to sense and see things we could not before. Mediums (while I admit not all are good ) are becoming more common place. I see that day when the Gifts I have will not be needed as we will all step into that place I feel we all have in us and know what I can sense.

Hard evidence, honestly is there even hard evidence that we exist in the physical and that the Earth is a real thing not an illusion created for others to see.

I remember an episode of Star Trek where the whole planet was an illusion that the beings were pure energy. Everything in material was real, but the beings were only illusion in form. They were pure energy, maybe that is what we are ?

I do not profess to say I am right in what I feel fits to whom I am. I do love nothing more than a skeptic in my audience when doing Platform Mediumship work. Not to call them out or prove something but at times to give them a message they really NEED to hear.

Lynn

[Rah nam]

I sometimes have to shake my head. I don't understand that so many can not see and understand who and what they are.
But never mind, it will all come to light in the not to distant future.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Rah nam

I sometimes have to shake my head. I don't understand that so many can not see and understand who and what they are.
But never mind, it will all come to light in the not to distant future.

In deep meditation today, I was told it was because people are getting it all mixed up...just like I was..I asked my Higher Self to put it all in Necro language of a few sentences.

People are looking too deep within and introverting their conscious mind in the attempt to 'lose the ego' and 'get enlightened' that they are still making it wholly self-focusing...they are concentrating on the "I Am' instead of on the "everything Is' because "everything Is also includes the "I Am'

They are still making the relative association between the 'finger' and the moon' without realising Brahman/Shiva is finger, person pointing, the physical reality of that person and moon, universe, consciousness and everything else.

They make it an effort to do spiritual practice to realise this unity, but the unity already existed beforehand and we separate this through conscious choice vs conscious awareness = free will.

For the past few days I have been in deep angst-agape states over the true nature of consciousness vs my relationship with the Divine, until the whole concept was turned end up with a "No, you are not God, God is YOU...already, but who you were before that and who you will remain to be is your ego....You will always be Necro, no matter what, even though you are also God and through the association, the relationship is still possible.

No-one can remain in trance state 24/7 and it's not expected of you, but for the times you are, you are "it" and for the times you are not, you live and dream "it". If God is Non-dual, within the non-dual rests the Dual...the whole material universe. For you to recognise and become fully aware of it, you need to be aware of the whole nature of duality first and go from 'nothing is real' to 'everything is real in relation to reality itself'.

Today, you have understood this and felt it within yourself...today you have felt me as well...there's no doubt of it now.

[Sarian]

Originally Posted by Volaju

I am probably a huge pessimist. But I simply cannot accept others truths without seeing them with my own eyes.

That's not a bad thing actually. I think no one should believe in something because another one told them to or of an experience they had. You never know what's truth or not....Same with religion. So many are born into a religion because their parents did as well and whole families are afraid to believe in something else or not believe at all because they had it instilled in them and personally, since I do not believe in religions or a big god in heaven type of thing, I see the damage and fear it has hold on people. It's very sad.

For me, I have had many experiences that I can't explain and have no definitive answers to but they are my personal experiences which have led me to believe there is more to this life and beyond...but that said, because I believe in something does not mean you or anyone else should. Maybe in time you will have something of your own that causes a stir within, but perhaps you won't. It's all okay.